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Posted by mips_avatar 12/3/2025

Everyone in Seattle hates AI(jonready.com)
967 points | 1065 commentspage 3
zjp 12/3/2025|
I like AI to the extent that it can quickly solve well-worn, what I've taken to calling "embarrassingly solved problems", in your environment, like "make an animation subsystem for my program". A Qt timeline is not hard, but it is tedious, so the AI can do it.

And it turns out that there are some embarrassingly solved problems, like rudimentary multiplayer games, that look more impressive than they really are when you get down to it.

More challenging prompts like "change the surface generation algorithm my program uses from Marching Cubes to Flying Edges", for which there are only a handful of toy examples, VTK's implementation, and the paper, result in an avalanche of shit. Wasted hours, quickly becoming wasted days.

mips_avatar 12/4/2025||
I feel the same way about those embarrassingly solved problems! Though oftentimes the trick is knowing what to ask for. I remember grinding for weeks on a front end but until I realized what the problem was (not the exact bug just what the general concept should be) Claude then fixed it in 10 seconds.
medhir 12/3/2025||
wow — this hit me hard.

I live in Seattle, and got laid off from Microsoft as a PM in Jan of this year.

Tried in early 2024 to demonstrate how we could leverage smaller models (such as Mixtral) to improve documentation and tailor code samples for our auth libraries.

The usual “fiefdom” politics took over and the project never gained steam. I do feel like I was put in a certain “non-AI” category and my career stalled, even though I took the time to build AI-integrated prototypes and present them to leadership.

It’s hard to put on a smile and go through interviews right now. It feels like the hard-earned skills we bring to the table are being so hastily devalued, and for what exactly?

mips_avatar 12/4/2025|
I’m glad it resonated. I’ve found a lot of people in Microsoft have some shared struggles right now. It’s really hard get excited about jobs after that, but you only need one job to be the right fit. It sounds like you were working on some great stuff and you should keep pursuing that interest in the meantime. You never know where it might lead you.
fencepost 12/4/2025||
From someone who's mostly avoided the AI craze so far, I think it comes down to a combination of two things.

1) "AI" is in many ways like the unreliable coworker so many of us have had in the past - maybe someone who talked a good game in interviews, but after you'd worked with them for a while you realize that you have to double-check everything they do for stupid/careless problems. In the worst case, you also have to do some hand-holding as they ask you for help with things that they should know how to do. They can produce good output but they can't be trusted to produce good (or even marginal) output so they're a net time sink.

2) In a frightening number of companies right now, that problem coworker is the owner's or manager's relative and cannot be avoided.

So boom, there you go, bad coworkers and a toxic culture that not just protects but promotes them.

rr808 12/3/2025||
There has always been a lot of Microsoft hate, but now its a whole new level. Windows now really sucks, My new laptop is all Linux for the first time ever. I dont see why this company is still so valuable. Most people only use a browser now and some ios apps, there is no need for Windows or Microsoft (and of course Azure is never anyone's first choice). Steam makes the gamers happy to leave too.
Havoc 12/4/2025||
They do seem to be collecting a lot of self inflicted Ls lately
w4yai 12/3/2025||
Gaming.
palmotea 12/3/2025||
> But then I realized this was bigger than one conversation. Every time I shared Wanderfugl with a Seattle engineer, I got the same reflexive, critical, negative response. This wasn't true in Bali, Tokyo, Paris, or San Francisco—people were curious, engaged, wanted to understand what I was building. But in Seattle? Instant hostility the moment they heard "AI."

So what's different between Seattle and San Francisco? Does Seattle have more employee-workers and San Francisco has more people hustling for their startup?

I assume Bali (being a vacation destination) is full people who are wealthy enough to feel they're insulated from whatever will happen.

Klonoar 12/3/2025||
I live in Seattle now, and have lived in San Francisco as well.

Seattle has more “normal” people and the overall rhetoric about how life “should be” is in many ways resistant to tech. There’s a lot to like about the city, but it absolutely does not have a hustle culture. I’ve honestly found it depressing coming from the East Coast.

Tangent aside, my point is that Seattle has far more of a comparison ground of “you all are building shit that doesn’t make the world better, it just devalues the human”. I think LLMs have (some) strong use cases, but it is impossible to argue that some of the societal downsides we see aren't ripe for hatred - and Seattle will latch on to that in a heartbeat.

Edit: are -> aren't. Stupid autocorrect.

klardotsh 12/3/2025||
Western Washington is very much a "work to live" place, and in a lot of ways there's a feedback loop to ensure it stays that way: surrounded by fellow "work to live" folks who would far rather just get our work done well and head out to the mountains, forests, and seas, the hustle bros will usually leave within a few years. I've watched it happen with quite a number of type-A folks. Exceptions for folks who make it into certain orgs in Amazon or into startup leadership, those seem to be safe places for hustlers around here.

Anyway. I think you're spot on with the "you all are building shit that doesn't make the world better, it just devalues the human" vibe. Regardless of what employers in WA may force folks to build, that's the mentality here, and AI evangelists don't make many friends... nor did blockchain evangelists, or evangelists of any of the spin-off hype trains ("Web3", NFTs, etc). I guess the "cloud" hype train stuck here, but that happened before I moved out west.

wrs 12/3/2025|||
Seattle has always been a second-mover when it comes to hype and reality distortion. There is a lot more echo chamber fervor (and, more importantly, lots of available FOMO money to burn) in SF around whatever the latest hotness is.
mips_avatar 12/3/2025||
My SF friends think they have a shot at working at a company whose AI products are good (cursor, anthropic, etc.), so that removes a lot of the hopelessness.

Working for a month out of Bali was wonderful, it's mostly Australians and Dutch people working remotely. Especially those who ran their own businesses were super encouraging (though maybe that's just because entrepreneurs are more supportive of other entrepreneurs).

evil-olive 12/3/2025||
in the first paragraph, he drops a link to the startup he's working on:

> I wanted her take on Wanderfugl, the AI-powered map I've been building full-time.

this seems to me like pretty obvious engagement-bait / stealth marketing - write a provocative blog post that will get shared widely, and some fraction of those people will click through to see what the product is all about.

but, apparently it's working because this thread is currently at 400+ comments after 3 hours.

ares623 12/4/2025|
I’ve been really tempted to put up a “wall of baiters” for such cases.
not_the_fda 12/3/2025||
I don't think the phenomenon is limited to Seattle.
jofla_net 12/3/2025|
Its not. I know some ex bay area devs who are the same mind, and i'm not too far off.

I think its definitely stronger in MS as my friend on the inside tells me, than most places.

There are alot of elements to it, one being profits at all costs, the greater economy, FOMO, and a resentment of engineers and technical people who have been practicing, what execs i can guess only see as alchemy, for a long time. They've decided that they are now done with that and that everyone must use the new sauce, because reasons. Sadly until things like logon buttons dis-appear and customers get pissed, it won't self-correct.

I just wish we could present the best version of ourselves and as long as deadlines are met, it'll all work out, but some have decided for scorched-earth. I suppose its a natural reaction to always want to be on the cutting edge, even before the cake has left the oven.

par 12/3/2025||
I think reading the room is required here. You and your friend can both be right at the same time. You want to build an AI-enabled app, and indeed there's plenty of opportunity for it I'm sure. And your friend can hate what it's done to their job stability and the industry. Also, totally unrelated, but is the meaning or etymology behind the app name Wanderfugl? I initially read it as Wanderfungl.
IAmBroom 12/3/2025||
I "spoke" it to myself while reading, and instantly heard "Wonderfuckle".
mips_avatar 12/3/2025||
It's wandering bird in Norwegian
gizzlon 12/5/2025||
no..?
side_up_down 12/3/2025||
There's a great non-AI point in this article - Seattle has great engineers. In pursuing startups, Seattle engineers are relatively unambitious compared to the Bay Area. By that I mean there's less "shooting for unicorns" and a comparatively more reserved startup culture and environment.

I'm not sure why. I don't think it's access to capital, but I'd love to hear thoughts.

sleepybrett 12/3/2025||
My pet theory is that most of the investor class in seattle is ex microsoft and ex amazon. Neither microsoft nor amazon are really big splashy unicorns. Amazon's greatest innovation (aws) isn't even their original line of business and is now 'boring'. No doubt they've innovated all over their business in both little and big ways, but not splashy ways, hell every time amazon tries to splash they seem to fall on their ass more often than not (look at their various cancelled hardware lines, their game studios, etc. Alexa still chugs on, but she's not getting appreciably better to the end user over even the last 10 years).

Microsoft is the same, a generally very practical company just trying to practical company stuff.

All the guys that made their bones, vested and rested and now want to turn some of that windfall into investments likely don't have the kind of risk tolerance it takes to fund a potential unicorn. All smart people I'm sure, smart enough to negotiate big windfalls from ms/az but far less risk tollerant than a guy in SF who made their investment nestegg building some risky unicorn.

ajkjk 12/4/2025||
one reason is that startup culture is cringe as hell

I'm being course, but like... it is though.

watwut 12/3/2025|
The author has unquestioning assumption that the only innovation possible is the one with AI. That is genuinely weird. Even if one believes in AI, innovation in non-AI space should be possible, no?

Second, engineering and innovation are two different categories. Most of engineering is about ... making things work. Fixing bugs, refactoring fragile code, building new features people need or want. Maybe AI products would be hated less if they were just a little less about being able to pretend they are an innovation and just a little more about making things works.

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