Top
Best
New

Posted by zoidb 7 days ago

Twelve Days of Shell(12days.cmdchallenge.com)
258 points | 86 comments
aargh_aargh 7 days ago|
The good: Nice exercises for beginners. Tab-completion, accepts readline characters like ctrl-u.

The bad: You don't see the (wrong) output if you don't get it right the first time, making it hard to work iteratively and having to guess what the question actually intended.

E.g. 'Seven files that start with "Santa"' actually wants file names that start with Santa, after some questions that had you use "grep" to search file contents. Where I actually struggled with what's expected is Day 11.

The ugly: Actually a very nice design.

pekim 7 days ago||
> Where I actually struggled with what's expected is Day 11.

Just the lines from the files are wanted, not the files names. It took me a little while to cotton on to that.

Semi-spoiler follows.

So you need to use the appropriate flag with grep to suppress the file names.

Retr0id 7 days ago||
The tab completion sorta works but it seems to be simulated, doesn't understand subdirectories etc.
oneeyedpigeon 7 days ago||
I think the instructions need more detail. 'Five lines that start with "the"' doesn't scream 'or "The", or "thE"' to me...
hdjrudni 6 days ago||
Yeah, I was very confused why it wasn't accepting my grep at first.
bArray 7 days ago||
Great idea, but a few feedback points:

1. It's difficult to know that it is following from the previous problem, and then on some problems it changes the workspace.

2. It's not always easy to know what it wants.

3. The question about finding a line starting with "The" I successfully cheated:

     cat night-before-christmas.txt | grep "The "
4. Likewise the ending "!":

    cat night-before-christmas.txt | grep "!"
5. On the eighth day I get a "runner error" with the command:

     mv *lve* Workshop
I'm globbing for the filename match, I'm not sure if it's "elve" or "Elve" and then trying to move to the target directory.

Otherwise it's quite fun - the instant feedback is great.

iN7h33nD 7 days ago|
iirc Elves is a directory with them inside.
arionmiles 7 days ago||
I've recently reached a point where I feel I've reached an upper limit with how much efficiency I can extract from my usual toolset/editors. So I've gone on a journey where I'm finally exploring tools that make living in the command line a productive and pleasant experience for me.

I've long put off learning or even exploring tmux or learning more than a few handful of vim keybinds. So I started digging into configuring them and learning them well enough to be able to regularly use them for work and personal computers.

It's been very pleasant, to say the least. There's still a few ways I need to go where I do everything from the command line and the keyboard, but I think it's worth training your muscles to be comfortable with doing things purely using the keyboard.

I've switched to vim mode for a few tools that offer it. I started seriously using vimium on chrome and firefox (a friend had introduced me to it about 7 years ago but I never cared enough to learn it well).

Another reason I finally made the jump was that I've been having RSI pain on my right hand due to using mouse too much and in un-ergonomic positions. While I've taken measures to improve ergonomic use of the mouse and keyboard, I'm just totally impressed with the capabilities of keyboard navigation and how much value you can extract out of your keyboard.

My friends have been egging on me about the bell curve meme, but I think it's important for me to figure out the limits and then maybe I will finally go back to defaults and simpler tools. The only way to be on the right side of the bell curve is through the middle.

kalaksi 7 days ago||
For learning vim, I recommend searching for a "vim cheat sheet" that has an image of a keyboard layout with vim commands in it and printing that. Makes it easier to check and learn more, little by little.

Another one is online tutorials that make you practice interactively. Haven't used those much but the little I did, it was helpful.

johncoltrane 7 days ago|||
Forget cheatsheets, tweets, videos, books, etc. Vim comes with a very well made built-in tutorial that will gently pull you toward maximum efficiency.
arionmiles 7 days ago|||
I love vim tutor!

I learnt the basics of vim navigation through it. I'm yet to finish it since I dropped it after the first chapter to start using it as a daily driver and picking things as I need. I will probably come back and go through it again at some point and by then it will be another mind-blown situation

johncoltrane 6 days ago||
Hmm. It looks like I forgot a pointer to the actual tutorial. I wasn't talking about vimtutor, which only covers very basic topics, but about the much more extensive user manual: :help user-manual.
arionmiles 18 hours ago||
I use neovim. I thought you were referring to the :Tutor command which starts the interactive tutorial.
sambaumann 7 days ago|||
been using vim for years, just did the tutorial and learned several things I did not know
Izkata 6 days ago|||
I have an odd suggestion for learning more of vim: Check out gvim.

It's vim with a GUI, dropdowns for nice discoverability and most importantly the shortcuts on each menu item are the commands to use it in regular vim. It's how I found out vim even had folding waaay back.

For Firefox, I use Tridactyl. After Vimperator died I tried several replacements and found Vimium very limited (IIRC it was the one that was just hotkeys and didn't have modes like vim, no idea how it's grown since then). I have Tridactyl configured to open gvim with the contents of any text input when I hit ctrl+i so I can use vim for them.

probablyrobert 6 days ago|||
Shameless shill - I found Tridactyl and Vimium to be frustratingly limited due to the security restrictions imposed on web extensions, so I've been working on https://glide-browser.app/ for a while; It's a fork of Firefox with (some) vim motions and a TypeScript based config.
arionmiles 6 days ago|||
Vimium does have visual/caret/insert/command modes these days. Tridactyl does seem nice, I will check this out, thanks!
ratrocket 6 days ago|||
Not commenting on the larger gist of the comment, only:

> I've been having RSI pain on my right hand due to using mouse too much and in un-ergonomic positions

If you can, try using a left-hand vertical mouse. I use an Evoluent but there are a million brands. Get a cheapo and try it out. I figure it took me about a week to adjust and my wrists have been happier ever since.

kace91 7 days ago|||
I went back and forth over the years with vim. Lazyvim plus the ebook (lazyvim for ambitious devs or something like that, it’s free online) is what allowed me to stick.

I can’t be doing real work and suddenly realize I don’t know the way to do a certain basic action. Lazyvim makes it so that for everything you want to do, there’s an already configured way, and then you have all the time in the world to fiddle for a better alternative if you don’t like it.

rramadass 6 days ago||
GNU Screen + dvtm/mtm + Vim (with some minimal plugins; especially for buffer mgmt) on a large Monitor is what you need to live on the command line :-)

Just have some minimal configs for the above and learn more of the default key bindings/behaviour etc. That way you can easily take the above setup to any machine that you move to.

derrida 7 days ago||
Hey this doesn’t work : first solution “ls -al” which I use all the time to list directories was rejected in the second question I used awk and was rejected it expected grep

I think a beginner could be doing it right but then be told they are wrong as you aren’t evaluating actual commands

Best would be to like actually run it* and then check solutions out with awk that it pattern matches

* aka give me a shell ok worth a try lol xD

Edit: also I was expecting something a bit more challenging (also that is correct) to like exercise the brain for those of us that use shell (this is hacker news) something that takes a few minutes and isn’t just commands used all the time

comprev 7 days ago||
"ls" shows only visible files whereas "ls -a" also displays those starting with a dot. Given the question doesn't that make your answer the correct one?
zenoprax 7 days ago|||
`la -A` will also show hidden files but excludes the "." and ".."

I prefer that way in theory but a capital "A" is not as quick/easy to type.

derrida 7 days ago|||
It accepts ls -a as and answer and ls -l but not ls -al
Retr0id 7 days ago|||
It does seem to actually run the submitted commands, and awk is there.
derrida 7 days ago||
Second question

> awk '/^laugh/ { print $0 }' night-before-christmas.txt

aidenn0 7 days ago||
Get rid of the caret and it works; it wants lines with laugh, not lines that start with laugh,
derrida 3 days ago||
Ah cheers thanks, my stupid! (And what's worse - wasted some others attention and even thought what someone took time to create was at fault!) However thankful for kind directness there.
prmoustache 6 days ago||
it also doesn't accept the find command.
janmatejka 7 days ago||
'Seven files that start with Santa' is actually about filenames. That's pretty confusing especially since users are primed with file contents from the previous exercises already.

And from pipers piping description I had no idea what was wanted of me.

Kakist0crat 6 days ago|
I think that may be the point, the subtlety of "lines of pipers piping" got me for a second - as opposed to the 11 pipers piping files (which is what I thought it wanted).
blenderob 7 days ago||
Looks nice but it's rejecting valid commands as incorrect. Like when it told me to search for "laugh" I ran

  grep laugh *
There's only one file in the directory. So that's a correct answer but the game wants me to run

  grep laugh night-before-christmas.txt 
It's like those weird interviewers who have a specific answer in mind and they'll accept nothing other than the answer they have in mind.
charlie-83 7 days ago||
`grep laugh *` worked for me
blenderob 7 days ago||
I tried again to see if they fixed it. No it still doesn't work. You'll get the output but look closer.

  Output does not match expected lines - try again
So you can't move on to the next level.
szszrk 7 days ago||
they must have fixed it. Works for me, including new sessions on separate browser.
blenderob 7 days ago||
Still doesn't work for me in a new session separate browser. I get the output but I also get this message

  Output does not match expected lines - try again
Does it give you the clue for the next level? Can you or someone else share a screenshot or something so I can compare to find out what I'm missing?
szszrk 7 days ago||
For clean session it goes to the next level.

There is some mess if you already finished the thing, and then use url to particular level on a clean session. For me it looked like I am on level 2, but site expected answers to 1.

When I start from scratch with proper link (main page) simple:

grep laugh *

works

blenderob 7 days ago||
Worked. Thanks!
ggirelli 7 days ago||
Or cat night-before-christmas.txt | grep laugh
lcuff 6 days ago||
I thought there was too much ambiguity to several of the challenges:

I gave up after the following exercise:

On the eighth day of Shell my true love gave to me Eight elves in Santa's Workhop/ ... Hint: Try finding files named after Elves and moving them to the Workshop/ directory.

It turns out, all they want is the files in the ./Elves directory to the ./Workshop directory. But I didn't figure that out.

imp0cat 6 days ago|
You're overthinking it. You can get quite far with a bit of ls or find . -type f exploration
lcuff 3 days ago||
Failing to understand the basic requirement is not, IMHO, overthinking it.

I will admit, as I reread the question and the hint just now, that I just didn't read carefully the first time through. It's actually pretty clear. Sigh.

People's minds work quite differently ... As evidenced by people that have strong reactions to particular languages (love or hate), or, as another example, people that love or hate syntax coloring in code. (Yes, it gets in the way for some). The fact that the instructions didn't make the problem clear to me is not an overthinking problem on my part. It would be better for me if the problems were expressed in different ways.

When trying to communicate, saying the same thing two different ways is a big step towards helping deal with the variance in people's minds. I wish they'd done that with some of the questions.

throw0101d 7 days ago||
Meta: the first day of the Twelve Days of Christmas is Christmas Day (December 25) itself:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_Days_of_Christmas

The days before the 25th are part of the season of Advent:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advent

xnorswap 7 days ago|
Too many people I know spend their boxing day packing up their tree. Christmas is over before it's barely begun!

But that's kind of understandable when Christmas begins in September if you believe the retailers.

lo_zamoyski 7 days ago|||
Indeed. Christmas lasts until Epiphany (January 6th) or even Candlemas (February 2nd).

Commercialism is likely the culprit for the current state of affairs. By putting the "Christmas season" and the commercialized variety of festivity before Christmas and making Christmas day the big finale, you create a situation during which you can get people to buy, buy, buy. And then it's over.

Compare that with the real deal and as it was traditionally celebrated. Advent is a period of contemplation, waiting, quiet, abstinence from meat -maybe even fasting - in anticipation for the birth of Christ. Then, on Christmas Eve and especially Christmas day, the festivities kick off, and they last until January 6th (the 12 days of Christmas) or Candlemas (40 days of Christmas). And that's when people used to pack up their trees and decorations (either Jan 6th or Feb 2nd).

People today suck at festivity. We're boring.

OkayPhysicist 6 days ago|||
IMO, commercialism moreso moved into the empty husk left after the Calvinists got to holidays, especially the puritanical sects that took root in the US. Specifically, I blame double-predestination: if you tell a bunch of people with free will that everyone is sorted into two groups, one going to heaven, one going to hell, and that the people going to heaven behave a certain way, it creates a much more oppressive, all-encompassing culture than traditional Christian "apologize and go to heaven because Jesus loves you" teachings. If your concern is not being judged negatively in the afterlife, you basically just need to follow some rules, try to be a generally good person, and you're generally free to do whatever else that isn't covered in the above categories. If you're concerned about demonstrating to others in your community that you are one of the God's chosen, who behave a certain way, that necessarily becomes universal factor in your life, which keeps escalating with time. This preoccupation with not being perceived as "having to much fun" so-to-say killed festivals.
throw0101d 6 days ago|||
> Indeed. Christmas lasts until Epiphany (January 6th) or even Candlemas (February 2nd).

Up to Candlemas was probably more cultural than liturgical, as things go back to 'Ordinary time' in the West post-Epiphany:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmastide

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liturgical_year#Christmastide

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epiphany_(holiday)

throw0101d 7 days ago|||
> boxing day

Ah, a fellow Commonwealther (I'm Canadian):

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxing_Day

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_of_Nations

beardyw 7 days ago|
As a developer I've been through 10 different languages and about the same number of operating systems, and I barely managed to remember any of them, even at the time. And I assume soon using natural language as the main interface will become commonplace, which will finally let me off the hook.

I will give this a go, but I doubt any of it will stick!

k_bx 7 days ago|
Shell quotes is the last frontier LLM's seem to keep getting wrong. Esp when it's Github CI yaml which needs to ssh somewhere and run command running another command there. Needs AGI apparrently.
wpm 4 days ago||
That and giving me GNU awk/grep/sed shit when I specifically asked for macOS/BSD.
More comments...