Top
Best
New

Posted by saigrandhi 1 day ago

Is it a bubble?(www.oaktreecapital.com)
317 points | 549 commentspage 4
charlescearl 21 hours ago|
The term “populist demagoguery” always calls to mind Report on an Investigation of the Peasant Movement in Hunan https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/selected-work...

"Yes, peasant associations are necessary, but they are going rather too far."

Is it a bubble? Maybe it’s just the landlords up to the old tricks again.

wfurney 1 day ago||
So is it a bubble or not?
tom_m 1 day ago||
Yes. It is a bubble. Also a useful tool...but 100% a bubble. There's going to unfortunately be a bunch of folks caught by it.
simpleui 1 day ago||
“It’s a bet on A.G.I. or bust,” Dr. Korinek said.
sshadmand 17 hours ago||
What you make of this memo really depends on who you are and how you're positioned. The dot-com era was absolutely a bubble. Tons of companies died, but the internet itself didn't go away, and the people who backed the right companies did extremely well. The 2007 housing bubble, on the other hand, was a totally different kind of event: broad, systemic, long lasting, and painful for almost everyone.

AI looks a lot more like the former. Some companies will fail, valuations will swing, but the underlying technology isn't going anywhere. In fact, many of the AI firms that will end up mattering are probably still undervalued because we're early in what will likely be another decade long technology expansion.

If you're managing a portfolio that needs quick returns and can't tolerate a correction, then sure, it probably feels like a bubble, because at some point people will take profits and the market will reset.

But if you're an entrepreneur or a long-term builder, that framing is almost irrelevant. This is where the next wave of value gets created. It's never smooth and it's never easy, but the long-term opportunity is enormous.

bn-l 1 day ago||
Author states that he’s neither an investor or a techie. Why is this on the front page?
cal_dent 1 day ago|
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Marks_(investor)
cmiles8 1 day ago||
There’s not much serious debate on IF there’s a bubble. There is and it’s a big one.

The debate is more on what happens from here and how does that bubble deflate. Gradually and controlled where weaker companies shut down and the strong thrive, or a massive implosion that wipes most everyone in the sector out in a hard reset.

m0llusk 19 hours ago||
> To build it requires companies to invest a sum of money unlike anything in living memory.

Do we know this? Smaller more carefully curated training sets are proving to be valuable and gaining traction. It seems like the strategy of throwing huge amounts of data at LLMs is specific to companies that are attempting to dominate this space regardless of cost. It may turn out that more modest and better optimized methodologies will end up winning this race, much like WebVan flamed out taking huge amounts of investment money with them but now Instacart serves the same sector in a way that actually works robustly and profitably.

threethirtytwo 1 day ago||
Ai is currently a bubble. But that is just a short term phenomenon. Ultimately what AI currently is and what the trend-line indicates what AI will become will change the economy in ways that will dwarf the current bubble.

But this is only if the trend-line keeps going, which is a likely possibility given the last couple of years.

I think people are making the mistake that AI is a bubble and therefore AI is completely bullshit. Remember: The internet was a bubble. It ended up changing world.

jbstack 1 day ago||
Yes, a bubble just means that it's over-valued and that at some point there will be a significant correction in stock values. It doesn't mean that the thing is inherently worthless.
sosborn 1 day ago||
A great example is the DotCom bubble. Wiped out a lot of capital but it really did transform the world.
jonwinstanley 1 day ago|||
But also, a lot of the dot com companies that people invested in in 1999 went bust, meaning those specific investments went to zero even if the web as a whole was a huge success financially.
RyanOD 1 day ago||
Sure...that's why it's important to diversify investments. For every Pets.com, hopefully you have a Google in your portfolio.

Or, you skip all that and just put it all in an S&P 500 fund.

lizknope 1 day ago|||
I started working in 1997 and lived through the dot com bubble and collapse. My advice to people is to diversify away from your company stock. I knew a lot of people at Cisco that had stock options at $80 and it dropped to under $20.

Because of the way the AMT (Alternative Minimum Tax) worked at the time they bought the stock, did not sell, but owed taxes on the gain on the day of purchase. They had tax bills of over $1 million but even if they sold it all they couldn't pay the bill. This dragged on for years.

Esophagus4 1 day ago||
I heard of stories like that!

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2001-apr-13-mn-50476...

That lesson is part of why I dump my company's shares the first chance I get.

lizknope 22 hours ago||
The person in the story is literally the person at Cisco I was talking about. I worked on 2 projects with him. Great engineer.
nelgaard 1 day ago|||
But you would not have had Google in you portfolio.

The bubble burst in 2000-2001, Google IPO was in 2004.

The S&P500 also did not do very well at the time.

That is the problem with bubbles.

bigstrat2003 1 day ago|||
Yeah, but unlike LLMs the Internet was an actual useful technology.
MangoCoffee 1 day ago||
Google said the dotcom bubble is roughly from 1995 to 2001. That's about 6 years. ChatGPT was released in 2022. Claude AI was released in 2023. DeepSeek was released in 2023.

Let's just say the AI bubble started in 2023. We still have about 3 years, more or less, until the AI bubble pops.

I do believe we are in the build out phase of the AI bubble, much like the dotcom bubble, where Cisco routers, Sun Microsystems servers... etc. sold like hotcakes to build up the foundation of the dotcom bubble

rvz 1 day ago||
> Let's just say the AI bubble started in 2023. We still have about 3 years, more or less, until the AI bubble pops.

Minimum 3 years and at a hard maximum of 6 years from now.

We'll see lots of so called AI companies fold and there will be a select few winners that stay on.

So I'd give my crash timelines at around 2029 to 2031 for a significant correction turned crash.

bossyTeacher 1 day ago|
The problem is that people conflate the current wave of transformer based ANNs with AI (as a whole). AI certainly has the potential to disrupt employment of humans. Transformers as they exist today not so much.

AI's potential isn't defined by the potential of the current crop of transformers. However, many people seem to think otherwise and this will be incredibly damaging for AI as a whole once transformer tech investment all but dries out.

MarkusQ 1 day ago||
It's a recurring phenomena, c.f. "AI winter" and the cycle before and after.

We're too easily fooled by our mistaken models of the problem, it's difficulty, and what constitutes progress, so are perpetually fooled by the latest, greatest "ladder to the moon" effort.

red75prime 1 day ago||
So, you bet on a) transformers can't be a load-bearing part of AI, and b) whatever replaces them will not be able to utilize TPUs. Do you have any reasons for those assumptions?

Looking at your history it's something like "I tried them and they hallucinate" and, possibly, you've read an article that talks about inevitability of hallucinations. Correct? What's your reason for thinking that hallucination rate can't be lowered to or below the human rate ("Damn! What I was thinking about?").

More comments...