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Posted by fzeindl 2 days ago

Koralm Railway(infrastruktur.oebb.at)
313 points | 195 comments
flowerthoughts 2 days ago|
Actually, the tunnel itself was only 17 years:

1998: Start of construction of the Koralm Railway

2008: Start of construction of the Koralm Tunnel

2018: Breakthrough Koralm Tunnel

2020: Final Koralm tunnel breakthrough

2025: This announcement (https://orf.at/stories/3414173/ in German)

https://infrastruktur.oebb.at/en/projects-for-austria/railwa...

usr1106 1 day ago||
Yeah, the submitted page misses the real news: Ordinary traffic will start tomorrow, Sunday.
alephnerd 2 days ago||
Given the terrain and the amount of tunneling needed, completing such a project in 17 years isn't that bad.

Seems software neckbeards on HN are equally as guilty of underestimating the difficulty of other people's work like the managers they complain about.

flowerthoughts 2 days ago|||
Yeah, and the last five years has not been drilling, but installing. The last year has been testing and tweaking (accordingt to the ORF article.)

Seems like a great project outcome. Mostly within budget, no political chaos due to delays (AFAICT) and allowing several months for testing before announcing it open.

buybackoff 2 days ago||
Just yesterday B1M published an interesting video about the future longest tunnel between Lyon, France and Turin, Italy. It will be more than 50km, deeply below the Alps. The project has finally secured funding, from both countries and EU, and is on track.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFrr-L_BcC4

sofixa 2 days ago||
It would be brilliant. Currently the Paris-Milan train line is barely competitive with flying between the two; knocking off 2-3 hours from the trip would make it around 4 hours in total, which is very competitive with flying (1h30 flight, but both CDG and Malpensa are big airports far outside the city, with significant time wasted getting to them, through security, etc). And of course it would be massive for Lyon - Turin, and Lyon - Milan too, where flying wouldn't even make sense any more.
ur-whale 2 days ago||
And now that Italy has built a tax haven for HNWI [1], the faster commute will IMO make business boom.

https://nomoretax.eu/italy-a-new-tax-haven/

seqastian 2 days ago||
Another one between Italy, Austria and by extension Germany is scheduled for 2032 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brenner_Base_Tunnel
ChrisMarshallNY 2 days ago||
Isn't Italy a little geologically unstable?

I'd be a bit nervous, going through a long tunnel, in a region known for vulcanism and earthquakes.

gunzel412 2 days ago|||
Let me introduce you to the Seikan Tunnel [1] between the islands of Honshu and Hokkaido in Japan, 53.85km with 23.3km of that under the sea.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seikan_Tunnel

ChrisMarshallNY 2 days ago||
Now, that’s scary. I do know that the Japanese have the world’s best anti-earthquake architecture (because they need it), but it’s still scary.
bobthepanda 1 day ago||||
Tunnels are actually pretty safe in earthquakes, Japan for example is criss crossed with them.

A tunnel is actually the least likely to shake; if you shake a jello with fruit inside it, the surface moves a lot but the interior fruit won’t move all that much.

eCa 2 days ago||||
The 57 km Gotthard Base Tunnel has been in operation since 2016. There's also a 3km long tunnel between France and Italy that opened in 1882. Nowadays there's probably hundreds of 1km+ tunnels in the Alps.
ChrisMarshallNY 2 days ago||
Well, from the other responses, it seems the Italian Alps are pretty stable.
tacone 2 days ago||
Yes but we're drilling holes through them to fix that.
whizzter 2 days ago||||
Italy isn't a puny country, it's over 1000kms between Sicily and the Alps (Like LA to Albuquerque), seems the fault lines reaches northern Italy (about 100km from the alps) but the amount of larger quakes seems smaller there.
AnimalMuppet 2 days ago|||
It is unstable, but (I think) more so in the south. I'm not sure that the Alps region is unstable.
groestl 2 days ago||
Booked a trip yesterday, without knowing this has happened. ~1h off my usual trip time, which I got accustomed to in the last two decades. It's extremely awesome!
dachris 2 days ago||
Its sister tunnel - the Semmering Base Tunnel [0] - is scheduled to be completed in 2030. These two combined greatly reduce the travel time from Vienna to Graz and Klagenfurt (combined 1h 15m time saving).

You don't hear that much about great engineering projects today, yet it's still an incredible feat to build those.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semmering_Base_Tunnel

mikewarot 2 days ago||
Holy cow... 16.7 Hertz[1] power?

At first that's a really odd sounding choice to this Hoosier. Turns out it's 1/3 of standard 50 Hz in Europe.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/15_kV_AC_railway_electrificati...

usr1106 1 day ago|||
It used to be exactly one third, i.e 16 2/3 so you can have generators on the same axle. However, being exactly one third caused unwanted resonance effects. So with the advent of power electronics it has been slightly shifted to 16.7 Hz. Within tolerance for the motors, but no unwanted resonance anymore.

My high school physics is not sufficient to really understand it.

ErroneousBosh 2 days ago|||
They actually used that in the US as well for railways. I remember a post years ago on the Classic Computer Mailing List from someone who said that their father had worked on the railways and pointed out that the "high bay" station lighting all ran off 3-phase 16.7Hz power. Apparently it looked okay at ground level but was quite disconcerting when you looked up and saw the lights flickering in patterns of three.
MrFlynn 2 days ago||
Early AC electrification systems in the US were typically 25Hz, not 16.7Hz. Parts of the northeast corridor still use 25Hz electrification.
ErroneousBosh 1 day ago||
I'm trying to find the post, but it was definitely 16.7Hz. I don't know that it was particularly "early" as such, probably the 1950s or so.
ekjhgkejhgk 2 days ago||
> You don't hear that much about great engineering projects today

Here's a great engineering project: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawthorne_test_tunnel

jimnotgym 2 days ago|||
Serious question about hyperloop trains running in a vacuum. How do you cool the carriages?
sawjet 1 day ago||
The tunnels aren't perfect vacuums
jimnotgym 15 hours ago||
That doesn't help me, I'm afraid. It must be low enough pressure to allow lower air resistance on the train, so must be a significant vacuum. Even if not a perfect vacuum, the carriage can presumably not exchange air with it, since the carriage is at a higher pressure. If you used aircon in the train the lower pressure air in the tunnel would be very poor at convecting heat away?
MattRix 2 days ago|||
is it though?
groestl 2 days ago||
I guess sarcasm.
ekjhgkejhgk 2 days ago||
;-)
contrarian1234 2 days ago||
Austria is the only European country I've been to that doesn't have cheap affordable intercity buses. Seemingly none at all. It was kind of strange... Does anyone know why?

The only options to get around was the expensive train system - and anyone I asked was bewildered why I would want to take a bus.. Maybe next time I should look in to carpooling or some other options. How do low income people get around typically? I need to go to attend a conference, but it's not cheap coming from Asia

EDIT: Seems I was wrong! Sorry. There are buses, (maybe fewer than other countries?)

lxgr 2 days ago||
Flixbus definitely exists in Austria, but people generally take the train, which is much faster and more comfortable.

There are various discount membership plans available that sometimes pay for themselves after just one round-trip or even one-way ride, and on the most popular connections there's now a private operator competing with the state-owned railway.

A yearly flat-rate ticket for intercity trains is also relatively affordable for EUR 1400 per year.

jack_tripper 2 days ago|||
>Flixbus definitely exists in Austria, but people generally take the train, which is much faster and more comfortable.

Not always true. The Graz-Vienna(Airport) trip is often quicker by flixbus than by OBB train.

Trains in Austria are quite slow , often travelling at the same speed as cars on the highway or often times even slower.

lxgr 2 days ago|||
Doesn't Flixbus cap their fleet to 100 km/h? I'd be surprised if that's higher than the average speed of most intercity trains.

Graz–Vienna is admittedly a bit of a special case, since the railway tunnel there isn't finished yet, so I could see cars/buses being faster. (The train makes up for that in views, though ;)

jack_tripper 2 days ago||
>Doesn't Flixbus cap their fleet to 100 km/h?

And the train is even slower than that. Let that sink in.

>Graz–Vienna is admittedly a bit of a special case

Special case at being ripped off when flights from London, Paris or Berlin across the continent are cheaper than trains from Graz to Vienna.

>The train makes up for that in views, though ;)

It really doesn't when you factor in the ticket prices. Some people who are not tourists use transportation out of necessity to get from A to B as quickly and cheaply as possible, not to do sightseeing and die of old age, so speed and value for money is more critical than what you see out the window. And a significant part of the trip is through tunnels anyway.

And there's only so many times you can see the same hills and houses before it gets repetitive and you go back to your phone. Not to mention if you travel second class, trains on that route are typically full of loud obnoxious people talking on their phone on speaker mode, who don't have courtesy for others so it ruins any enjoyment of sightseeing unless you have good noise cancelling headphones.

haspok 1 day ago|||
I remember the last time I took the train in Austria, between Wien and Linz there was a section where the odometer on the train was showing 220 km/h.

A large part of Austria is the Alps, that poses special challenges for trains. That's why these base tunnels are so important. Funny you ignored the comment about the Semmering tunnel being built, and how it will help with the travel time on that section.

Flights are so cheap because they are subsidized (primarily the fuel), and their CO2 emissions are just swept under the rug. There is also this problem of not having enough high speed cross-country trains, and even if they exist, you usually have to change trains and book tickets separately for each country. The EU has a plan to improve on this in the next 20 years.

> trains on that route are typically full of loud obnoxious people talking on their phone on speaker mode, who don't have courtesy for others so it ruins any enjoyment of sightseeing unless you have good noise cancelling headphones.

Yes, because Ryanair or Wizzair flights never have loud obnoxious people...

spacechild1 1 day ago|||
> Special case at being ripped off when flights from London, Paris or Berlin across the continent are cheaper than trains from Graz to Vienna.

A "Sparschiene" ticket from Vienna to Graz typically costs between 10€ and 25€. With the Vorteilscard, a regular ticket costs 22€. (I believe the full regular price only exists to rip off tourists :)

jack_tripper 1 day ago||
>A "Sparschiene" ticket from Vienna to Graz typically costs between 10€ and 25€.

I've never seen it below 19 Euros.

Are Austrian residents excempt from the "full regular price"?

Then it's ripping me off too not just tourists.

Actually the entire country is a ripoff.

spacechild1 1 day ago||
> I've never seen it below 19 Euros.

I randomly picked next Wednesday (December 17). There are several offers for 9,90€

> Are Austrian residents excempt from the "full regular price"?

No, and that would be against EU laws.

lxgr 1 day ago||
> No, and that would be against EU laws.

"Reverse discrimination" is generally legal under EU law.

For example, EU law grants the non-EU spouses of EU citizens living in an EU country other than the EU citizen's home country much broader right than the EU citizen's home country otherwise might.

spacechild1 1 day ago|||
When the tracks allow it, the Railjet goes over 200 km/h. Vienna-Linz only takes 1 hour, which is about twice as fast as by car. Same for the new Koralm track.
jack_tripper 1 day ago||
Then the tracks are shit if cars can go twice as fast on the same terrain.
spacechild1 1 day ago||
I agree that regional trains are often painfully slow. But that's also because there are so many stops.

Vienna-Graz is mainly slow because it has to cross the Semmering mountains and the tracks date back to the K&K days. This will change with the Semmering tunnel.

contrarian1234 2 days ago|||
Oh really? I took the Flixbus from the Czech Republic and is stopped near the border and then after that it was train only. Maybe I ended up in a weird spot then! I just checked and there are indeed buses in-country. Strange that I somehow couldn't find any then

Thank you for the info!

lxgr 2 days ago||
There's definitely bus service (not just Flixbus, also Regiojet and probably others) between Vienna and Prague.
b0vinat-- 2 days ago|||
That part of Europe has historically loved its trains. The train is more than transportation there. It’s an institution and part of the culture. Have you been to a toy store and looked at the precision and cost of the train sets? They don’t just ride the train, the train is part of who they are and what they love, starting when they’re small children. The trains run on-time, they’re clean, and overall they tend to be more modern. In addition, people walk.
milch 2 days ago||
Trains are also just more comfortable. More space, more comfortable seats, more space for luggage, you can walk around, better bathrooms, easier to work from especially in the 4 seat configuration, … Personally I would always prefer the train even if it is a bit slower. Once you account for traffic a bus that is scheduled to be faster ends up slower anyway, especially when you really needed it to be on time
mschwaig 2 days ago|||
I would blame how Austria, a very small country, is organized into 9 provinces that actually have their own budget and can pass their own laws on some topics.

Rail service is funded at the federal level, so there's less arguing about who pays for what. Bus service, however, is managed by regional transport associations funded by the provinces. This creates disincentives for cross-province bus routes because no single province wants to pay more than its 'fair' share for a service that primarily benefits voters in another province.

Similar dynamics play out at the city/province level. Take Linz, the provincial capital of Upper Austria: the city has had a social democratic (SPÖ) mayor continuously since 1945, while the province has had a conservative (ÖVP) governor for exactly the same period of 80 years. This disincentivizes the province government from helping to fund public transport within or into the city, because it's a win for social democratic city voters, while the more conservative rural voters would rather take the car anyway since they often can't do the whole trip by public transport.

Arguably the reason for the excellent public transport in the city of Vienna is that they are also their own province. Their mayor/governor, who has been a social democrat as well for the last 80 years, always controls both levels of funding.

letn1 2 days ago|||
To tell you the truth I was shocked how expensive trains are in whole Europe. Like arent railroads the cheapest and easiest type of road to be built. For real, to get a fair price you would need to book the train like 2 months before the trip.
jack_tripper 2 days ago|||
>Does anyone know why?

Small county with small market monopolized by few politically connected local players in every major sector of the economy who sometimes enjoy regulatory protectionism from the government to keep foreign competitors out and turn a blind eye on racketeering practices.

That's how everything, including stuff made in Austria is more expensive than the same stuff sold in Germany even though wages are lower.

Same issues like in other small markets like New Zeeland except Austria being an EU member should have more pressure from free trade competition but that doesn't always work in favor of the consumers.

spacechild1 1 day ago|||
Almost noone in Austria pays the full price. You either use "Sparschiene" (cheap tickets you book in advance), the Vorteilscard (membership card which gives a 50% discount on every regular ticket) or the various annual or monthly flatrate tickets (e.g. "Klimaticket").
holri 2 days ago|||
> The only options to get around was the expensive train system

can be cheap when you book early. Vienna -> Graz -> Vienna: ~20€

tomw1808 2 days ago|||
yes, we do, e.g. flixbus. and some others I think. Haven't been traveling for a while by bus around Austria. Apples/Oranges probably, but I do know vienna<->bratislava has like 3-4 different companies operating the same route with similar busses at similar times with different prices.

And talking about apples/oranges, let me add apples/bananas: Vienna to Budapest by train cost a lot when booking via öbb. And not a lot when booking via Regiojet.

The problem is the offers are all scattered around imho.

jack_tripper 2 days ago||
Yep, single tickets on Austrian ÖBB is not cheap at all without subscriptions or discounts.

Prices are good only if you use it regularly as a commuter via a yearly subscription (Klimaticket), but for one off trips, prices are more expensive than flying.

rcbdev 11 hours ago|||
That is the point! Austria is on the verge of overtourism, it's a conscious political decision in this case to tax transport of tourists highly and allow the population cheap subscription plans.

No voter in Austria would want it any other way.

spacechild1 1 day ago|||
> but for one off trips, prices are more expensive than flying.

Sparschiene tickets are very cheap. For example, Graz-Vienna (200 km) is between 10€ and 25€. How is that more expensive than flying!?

ErroneousBosh 2 days ago||
The trains are pretty cheap, and getting around cities is practically free.
roflmaostc 2 days ago||
In case you wonder, the Koralm Tunnel has a length of 32.9km

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koralm_Tunnel

tomw1808 2 days ago||
"The Koralm Tunnel opened on the 14th of December 2025" ... wikipedia living in the future past :)
roflmaostc 2 days ago|||
Haha, check who updated this article. Only afterwards I realized we're not past the 14th yet...
teraro 2 days ago||
Already fixed!
groestl 2 days ago|||
I guess it's the opposite of Futur III:

https://www.der-postillon.com/2012/08/neue-zeitform-futur-ii...

the_mitsuhiko 2 days ago||
I really waited for this since I was a child. It’s fascinating to see it actually be here.
spacechild1 2 days ago|
Me too! But why did you need a quick connection between Klagenfurt and Graz as a child? I would have rather longed for a high speed train between Hermagor and Villach ;-)
butlike 2 days ago|||
What kid doesn't go through a 'train phase?' and a grand plan to improve the railway could be exciting to a child even if it's more spectacle than utility.
bombcar 2 days ago||
Especially since a child will see all the visualizations and such that are put out before work begins.
rsynnott 2 days ago||
When I was a kid, in the early 90s, there was a diagram in the local library of the planned Dublin metro. It was, at that point, an old plan, I think from the early 80s.

The third attempt at a Dublin metro just got planning permission a few weeks ago; said planning is now bogged down in a judicial review.

Somewhat envious of Austria’s speed in this sort of thing, really…

rcbdev 11 hours ago||||
I would have never expected to read about Hermagor in an HN thread. Greetings from the Werbutz Alm!
the_mitsuhiko 2 days ago|||
At least I got to enjoy the highway connection between Noetsch and Villach when I was a child. Both of those things were big things due to local politics (hi Haider) when I grew up. Practically I did not care. But it was ubiquitous for a while in the news.
mattcantstop 2 days ago||
Interstate 70 in Colorado is very problematic. It is constantly backed up. Colorado needs to learn from this and get serious about rail for shipping and for human travel.
IncreasePosts 2 days ago||
It's going to take 30 years to get a passenger rail connection between boulder and Denver...flat ground, 30 miles, where a train line already is.

The i70 line will never happen.

jeingham 2 days ago||
I feel you man. Problem is that would be a major dollar infrastructure problem that would need federal dollars. With a deficit over 40T dollars and political wind blowing against more federal spending generally and Colorado not being a favored state at the moment I'd say the chances are slim of it happening in the next three years. It would be boffo if some liberal corporate billionaire put his shoulder against the project like that enough to inspire a combination of a Colorado bond issue, some state funding and support. The way California handled its high speed rail in Central valley here is not an inspiration I'll tell you that right now. What a fcuk-up and embarrassment that is. What were they thinking?
bluGill 2 days ago|||
IF Colorado did this all alone they could potentially avoid a lot of the high costs that result from getting federal dollars. Maybe - Federally funded projects tend to cost 4-7x would they would elsewhere in the world - but nobody really knows why and so it is questionable if Colorado could figure out how to build cheap. Still the potential is there. Colorado's costs would be a lot higher at 7x the cost with federal funding vs doing it all themselves for reasonable costs - but only if they solve all the issues the drive costs up.

Note that I have no confidence Colorado will tackle the issues driving costs up. Several of the known factors are places where politically powerful people (from all sides so don't bring in class warfare) are increasing costs and they let you cut them off. There are a lot of unkonwen issues left after factoring the above, and it is likely they also have politically powerful people increasing costs.

dmix 2 days ago|||
> and political wind blowing against more federal spending generally

Federal non-defense spending in the US is as high as ever (ignoring the brief COVID spike) https://www.cato.org/blog/century-federal-spending-1925-2025

igogq425 2 days ago||
This is the first time I've read anything in English about Kärnten and Steiermark. Styria and Carinthia are impressive names. It's as if the Roman Empire were still there.
primes4all 1 day ago||
Considering, both, that most of the austrian states are the successors of duchies that existed already more than 500 years ago in the HRE, and that their governors today are also jokingly called „princes“, your idea is not that far fetched.
tacker2000 2 days ago||
Im sure you know about the Styrian Oak?
lcuff 1 day ago|
I remember reading some time ago that there is a real difficulty running passenger trains and freight trains over the same rails. With freight, you can tolerate bumps at the rail-join points, and freight tends to create such bumps because the heavy loads push the rails slightly out of place. Also, freight routes should be limited to a 2% grade, whereas 4% can be tolerated for the lighter passenger cars. Have these problems been mitigated on the Koralm Railway? Anyone know how?
joushx 6 hours ago|
The rails are welded together (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exothermic_welding), so there are no joins.
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