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Posted by fleahunter 3 days ago

Sick of smart TVs? Here are your best options(arstechnica.com)
616 points | 520 commentspage 2
JayGuerette 3 days ago|
I'm confused. Every TV is a dumb TV if you don't give it your Wifi password.
_dan 3 days ago||
Yeah I have a couple of recent Samsung OLEDs and they're fine without an internet connection despite reports that they wouldn't be. If I press one of the annoying streaming service buttons on the remote it'll give me a setup popup which needs to be dismissed, otherwise they work fine, albeit without any built in streaming support.

I'd read reports that Q-Symphony (audio from the TV speakers and soundbar simultaneously) wouldn't work, but it does.

I stuck an OSMC (https://osmc.tv/) box to the back of both of them so they can play stuff from my NAS. They're not the cheapest solution and I realise Kodi/XBMC on which they're based isn't everyone's jam (I grew up with XBMC on an Xbox so it is very much mine) - but they play everything, have wifi, HDMI-CEC, integrated RF remote, and work out of the box.

Model numbers if anyone cares: Samsung QE65S95C, Samsung QE77S95F. I believe S95, S90 and S85 (at least up to F) are all very similar so they should all work but ofc ymmv.

drnick1 2 days ago|||
This OSMC box looks interesting, but does it allow to run arbitrary programs like a plain Linux box? What I have in mind here are things such as VacuumTube (YoutubeTV front end), a Web browser to stream from various online sources, etc. I found KODI (as running on Linux) far too restrictive when it comes to streaming from the Internet, and the add ons to be terrible. (In particular the YouTube add-on requires an API key registered with Google, which makes it a far worse proposition than using VacuumTube anonymously.)
_dan 2 days ago|||
Yeah that OSMC box is just running Debian with their stuff coming from its own package repo. You can get a root shell. I realise I could have built something myself (and have in the past) but it's absolutely worth the money to me to get everything in a tiny package and working perfectly from day one.

I wouldn't recommend Kodi for streaming, it kinda works but the experience isn't great. I use it exclusively for playing stuff from my server full of legally acquired public domain videos (ahem).

I do watch YouTube videos on it, but I use TubeArchivist (basically a fancy wrapper for yt-dlp) to pull them onto the server first, and a script to organise them into nicely-named directories.

jwrallie 2 days ago||||
Thanks for mentioning VacuumTube, it sounds useful.

I’m using a Minix Z100 running Gnome and Kodi. I use a simple Bluetooth keyboard, the interface is clunky but it does the job. I use Samba to also share files to VNC running on iOS and Android on the same network.

I tried using fancier solutions but anything that browses content without involving directories always break for some specific content in unpredictable ways.

drnick1 2 days ago||
That has been my experience as well. So far nothing has come close to the flexibility of Gnome (upscaled) with an airmouse. I am keeping an eye on the Plasma Bigscreen project however (10-foot UI for Plasma).

An alternative could be some x86 Android TV build like Lineage, but I have not seen very convincing demonstrations that this is truly viable.

timc3 2 days ago|||
No, it doesn’t in the way you are intending. I run various utilities on them, but nothing that ever shows up in the interface/TV

I just think of them as the best solution to run Kodi for media that is on my network.

tuna74 1 day ago|||
Why can't you just run the Kodi app directly on the TV?
lelandfe 3 days ago|||
My recent TCL TV forces you agree to Google's terms and conditions, and you aren't even provided the text of what you're agreeing to unless you connect the TV to the internet.

It felt illegal.

hopelite 2 days ago||
It is technically illegal if that is how it is configured. Go get ‘em.

But kidding aside, who are we even really kidding anymore, even if you were provided the TOS would you simply not use the device of there were something in the TOS you disagreed with? How about when you’ve been using the device and all the sudden they change the TOS and force agreement as you are about to start a tv evening with the family?

The people simply accepted their enslavement, the taking of your agency, because we all allowed or were overwhelmed with it.

They take our agency through process just like they’ve taken our freedom and rights in so many different ways, just like through YC funded Flock, where treasonous mass surveillance cameras just show up over night and most here seem unaware it’s a YC company that now provides a mass surveillance network to the government and global government tightening its noose around humanity’s neck.

wccrawford 3 days ago|||
My 2 year old LG complained every time I turned it on that I hadn't hooked it to the internet. No way to disable it.

Now that it's connected, it shows an ad at that time, in the same way. Can't win.

somat 2 days ago|||
I think they, or at least samsungs. will happily use open wifi if they can find it.

Source, my open test network and a neighbors tv that keeps trying to phone home with it.

asdff 2 days ago|||
The TV can happily connect to my neighbors printer WLAN. That is the only open wifi around. It isn’t 2008 anymore.
baobun 1 day ago|||
I'm curious about that neighbor TV, do you have a model name or something if one would like to reproduce?
eduction 3 days ago|||
Yup - my LG (~6 months old) works fine without my ever having given it a WiFi password.

This is what the article recommends by the way.

SoftTalker 3 days ago|||
i have a vizio which I opened up and removed the WiFi module. it never complains about the internet now.
nullhole 2 days ago||
"In the land of telescreens, the man with the soldering iron is king"
SoftTalker 2 days ago||
Did't even require that. It was a standard mini pci-e wifi card, just unclipped it and removed it from its slot.
tastyfreeze 2 days ago|||
My Vizio wouldn't go past the "connect to internet" screen on first boot.
rgovostes 2 days ago|||
A guest logged into Wi-Fi on a Vizio of mine and there was conveniently no way to disconnect/forget it without a factory reset back to motion smoothing hell.
MrMetric 2 days ago|||
Change your network name. When the TV prompts you to connect, join the renamed network. Then, rename it back so everything else can connect again and the TV can't. I can think of a few potential problems with this, but, it might work?

Or blacklist the TV's MAC address in your router settings. Didn't think of that first for some reason.

systemtest 2 days ago|||
You gave me flashbacks to my Samsung washing machine that needed a factory reset after changing my SSID. Which also reset the service life of filters and liquids and such which was somewhat of a hassle. Such a dumb design not being able to change the wireless network.
JKCalhoun 3 days ago|||
I have a Mac Mini hooked up to my TV. We never use anything mode of the TV. (Then again, I have zero streaming services, so perhaps I am not who this article is for.)
moltopoco 2 days ago|||
Neither do I, but what about YouTube? Not letting your TV manufacturer sell your watching habits is already a big win, and on macOS you can further block telemetry. A big chunk of my YouTube consumption happens through yt-dlp using a VPN provider that presumably does not cooperate with Google.
nottorp 2 days ago|||
What do you use for a remote for the Mac Mini?
JKCalhoun 2 days ago|||
Sadly, there's just a keyboard + trackpad sitting on my TV-audio console (a kind of home made speaker credenza I built years ago).

So no remote. I get up, hit the spacebar to pause/play. The audio is into a multi-channel receiver though so audio has mute/volume controls on a remote.

omgmajk 2 days ago||||
I have a Lenovo used minipc connected to mine and I just use a Logitech K400+, it runs Linux with KDE. I will never need a smart tv, or want one, for that matter.

I get that people would rather have a remote but I personally actually don't like remotes at all. My TV is basically a screen only.

nottorp 2 days ago||
Yeah the problem with a keyboard and trackpad is you need the lights on.
omgmajk 2 days ago||
I do not, but I get what you mean :)
andrewchilds 2 days ago|||
Not the parent but my family also has a mac mini to offline TV setup - just a small bluetooth keyboard/mouse and the tv remote for volume. Works well.

As far as I know there are no remotes that work with MacOS.

ivanjermakov 2 days ago|||
My LG TV is pretty dumb since the only button it has is "connect to media server" in local network.
dawnerd 3 days ago||
some will yell at you with a notification until you give in and connect it.
Retric 3 days ago||
Return it as unfit for service.
kazinator 2 days ago||
About commercial displays:

> A spokesperson from Panasonic Connect North America told me that digital signage displays are made to be on for 16 to 24 hours per day and with high brightness levels to accommodate “retail and public environments.”

Some TV's err on the side of being too dim for daytime viewing in a bright room; that could only be a plus.

If it's too bright in a way that can't be turned down, you could always DIY a tinted shield to put over it for evening viewing. We used to use things like that over CRT monitors once upon a time.

> Their rugged construction and heat management systems make them ideal for demanding commercial use, but these same features can result in higher energy consumption, louder operation, and limited compatibility with home entertainment systems.

I've never heard a commercial flat screen display make a sound.

> Panasonic’s representative also pointed out that real TVs offer consumer-friendly features for watching TV, like “home-optimized picture tuning, simplified audio integration, and user-friendly menu interfaces.”

That person doesn't understand how this would be used at all. The user hooking up their streaming box to the display panel only needs the panel to do video (e.g. via HDMI cable). The display is not involved in audio at all.

I use a 1/8" plug stereo cable going straight from the Android box to a pair of RCA jacks in the speaker system. Bluetooth could be used but the wire has lower latency, 100% reliability, and not using BT means that the speakers are available for pairing if someone wants to use them from a phone. They have a remote control that can switch between two copper line inputs, and BT. The TV's volume is kept at 1%; it would make no difference if it had no speakers.

aceazzameen 2 days ago||
We're running a solution that isn't perfect and isn't for everyone. We have a nice Sony Android TV along with a pihole. But on the TV itself I installed f-droid and netguard. Netguard's UI sucks on a TV, but it's workable. I use it to block Internet access to everything including Google. Only a few streaming apps have internet access. There was some trial and error with a handful of dependencies too.

If I need to update an app, I temporarily allow Google services access. All the streaming apps work well, except for HBO Max which takes a few minutes to load. I suspect it has a long timeout/retry count for something I'm blocking. But once it loads, it's fine.

I also use a different and basic home launcher so we can open the apps we want immediately, without having to deal with shifting algorithm-based icons. But even if we use the Google launcher, it's mostly empty and free of ads because it can't connect. It does still capture what I recently watch though.

Overall it's a decent experience, mainly because we're not being bombarded by more ad algorithms.

class3shock 2 days ago||
I'm less bothered by the ever present smart tv and more bothered that there is no way to just turn on the tv and go straight to input from a certain port. Would love to know TV's that just do that. My old Samsung constantly forces me to click through sources and out of smart features to get to the hdmi from my computer everytime I turn it on.
abdullahkhalids 2 days ago||
I just bought a LG 50" UA7000 [1] that goes straight to HDMI on turning on. I am using it as a additional screen for my laptop. I am hoping using one screen two feet away and one screen 6 feet away will preserve my eyesight a bit longer.

A minor problem is that it displays "Turning on AI voice features" every time I turn it on, but those features are not actually turned on. It probably tries to, but since I never connected the TV to the internet, this fails. Still have to figure out how to get rid of the message.

[1] https://www.bestbuy.ca/en-ca/product/lg-50-ua7000-4k-uhd-hdr...

noveltyaccount 2 days ago|||
Samsung had a hidden hospitality menu, or hotel mode, search for how to access it for your model. You can have it go right to an input on power on.
dizhn 2 days ago||
Getting an hospitality variant tv might be an option too. I have a Samsung one which does have some smart features but they are mostly backend related. I think there's only YouTube on the user facing side. I got it because they are support to be better TVs for the money but it was such a huge pain to set up that I wouldn't do it again.
duffyjp 2 days ago|||
We have two Hisense TVs that both allow this. One is Roku based and the other Google TV. Neither is connected to wifi. I’d recommend the Google flavor, it has a lot more control over the settings and will auto suspend in a reasonable period if no input is being sent. The Roku’s minimum auto suspend is 4 HOURS.

They were cheap and the picture quality is great. Not OLED level, but jeeze I had to share a 27” CRT for my SNES as a kid—

burlesona 2 days ago|||
My recent Sony TV does this.

But also I pretty much never use the TV button to turn it on, I click a button on one of the connected devices to wake it and the TV turns itself on with that input selected. Even if it’s already on, if I want to switch from one device to another I can just wake the other device and it will switch inputs for me. It works really well, I almost never have to use the input selector and it just does the right thing reliably.

Gigachad 2 days ago|||
HDMI CEC should be able to to turn on TVs direct to the input. Sadly few desktops seem to support it.
pabs3 2 days ago|||
Apparently "almost no PC GPU has hardware support for CEC" according to Arch. Wonder if that is outdated and modern GPUs do?

https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/HDMI-CEC

aprilnya 2 days ago|||
This is still pretty much the case. There are ways to do it (i.e. adapters that sit between your HDMI cable and GPU) but it’s wonky.
moltopoco 2 days ago|||
The Steam Machine will support CEC, hopefully other PC vendors will take note and adopt it.
saint_yossarian 2 days ago|||
My Samsung QN90B does that just fine, it's only a few years old. IIRC there's a setting somewhere in the menu to not boot to the home screen. It also doesn't nag me about anything, although I only enable wifi when I want to update.
saint_yossarian 2 days ago||
Just checked now: the setting is General & Privacy -> Start Screen Options -> Start with Smart Hub Home.
Suppafly 2 days ago|||
Is the input device on prior to turning the tv on? Some of them will automatically switch if an input is on or gets switched on.
adambb 2 days ago|||
LG (UT8000 at least) TVs have an option to default to last used input, that works reliably.
wmf 2 days ago||
Roku has this feature.
pabs3 2 days ago||
Hopefully this lawsuit will mean people can modify the software on their smart TVs; replace it with a Linux distro running KDE Bigscreen or similar.

https://sfconservancy.org/copyleft-compliance/vizio.html

qubex 1 day ago||
I have a 2010 Toshiba Regza TV that has never been connected to the internet and is from the time when “1080p” was the new hotness and there was a kerfuffle going on about 3D televisions. Lots of HDMI 1.2 (?) ports, and a lot of legacy connectors including a SCART for when I want to bring a tear to my eye by watching VHS tapes from my youth. Attached to a 3rd generation AppleTV that could take a round and not drop the line; a device still supported but also too ancient for the flamboyant new Liquid Glass UI. Also attached: a Raspberry Pi 4 with an external 8TB HD. Amongst other things it’s the authoritative node for my Resilio Sync mesh of media and ebooks across all my devices.

I’m a happy camper. Newer stuff would feel like a downgrade. Couldn’t care less about 4K video. Never wilfully seen sought it out, unimpressed when I see it.

I still go to the cinema regularly, alone. Something very deliberate about going to a place to pay a price to go into a specific space to do a specific thing. Pandering to second screen audiences has produced some of the most profoundly insulting media in living memory.

amundskm 3 days ago||
I have had an old PC hooked up to the hdmi port of an old TV for years and it works exactly as I want. I have full control and don't have to deal with smart tv ads.
amelius 3 days ago||
Unfortunately cars are becoming like smart TVs in this respect.
00N8 3 days ago||
I'll never buy a car manufactured after about 2014 for this reason. I'm planning to just keep getting repairs & upgrades done on my model year 2006 for at least the next 10-20 years. By then perhaps I will want to switch to electric, but I'll do it by electrifying something older.

Cars from around 1998-2014 usually have side curtain airbags & adequate rollover durability. The only improvements since then that I'd even want at all are better EV batteries & marginal efficiency gains for IC engines, but those can be retrofitted &/or aren't worth the anti features they also added IMO.

If car companies want my business they'll have to remove the telemetry & automatic updates.

I don't care if I end up paying more to drive an old car eventually, but this approach has also been saving me money so far.

zeroonetwothree 3 days ago|||
ESC is pretty good for safety. I would not want a car without that. Cars from 2014 do have it of course but not those much older.

FWIW I have two 2018 models with zero “smart” features.

asdff 2 days ago||
No thank you. I will take predictable handling and a steering wheel that responds to my inputs. Loss of traction situations are exactly where I don’t want any systems helping. I need to countersteer and feel the car. Speaking as someone who was raised in winter driving and encouraged to find the limits of handling in snow and ice covered parking lots.

Of course if you are one of those drivers who removes their hands from the wheel in a stressful situation (there are many), these systems will help somewhat.

timc3 2 days ago||
It really depends on the situation and the car. I’ve had it really help and not take over too much (very modern Porsche in the mountains), and systems where it was actively making the situation much worse by alternately locking the brakes on individual wheels. That was down a long hill which turned icy a third of the way down in a borrowed 2013 BMW F30, and I still consider it luck that I kept it on the road and nothing was coming the other way.
aceazzameen 3 days ago||||
This is the same reason why we haven't bought a new vehicle. Our 2013 Toyota is fantastic.
epiccoleman 2 days ago||
I've got a 2013 Honda Fit that I love. It's just worked nearly perfectly with only routine maintenance since we bought it used in 2016.
Grazester 2 days ago|||
I have a car from 2017 that is perfectly dumb. It had been a rehash of a car being produced since 2010 though. All other models of the same year by the manufacturer had telemetry, mobile app start etc. All those models are now dumb though since for those earlier years they used 3G wireless which is now a dead spectrum.
anonym29 3 days ago|||
It's not feasible for everyone, but between grocery delivery services, telehealth, etc - if you work remotely anyway, it may be surprisingly feasible to get rid of your car altogether and only Uber/Lyft as needed, at least until robotaxis expand into your area at a fraction of the price of traditional ride-hailing apps.
raw_anon_1111 3 days ago|||
I work remotely, my gym is downstairs as well as a convenience store with some fresh (overpriced) items, a bar and an (overpriced) restaurant.

My barber and grocery store is a $9 Uber Ride each way. So I could get away with a car easily where I live now. My wife and I have been down to one car since Covid.

But when I was in the burbs if metro Atlanta where everything wasn’t so close, it would have been over $100 easy going from one side to the other or basically anywhere besides the grocery store.

My car insurance is only $176 a month for my wife and I. It doesn’t make sense not to have a car, even if you include the minor maintenance on a car that would be hardly ever driven. Even at a theoretical $400 car payment + $176 in insurance, it still easy to come out ahead.

asdff 2 days ago||
Only a $9 ride in 2025? What is that 1-2 miles? Just bike.
raw_anon_1111 2 days ago||
Yes because it’s completely safe to bike everywhere and how would I bring the groceries back?

I live in a tourist area where there are a lot of drivers causing the prices to be low. I noticed it in Las Vegas too.

The only reason I know is I use Uber to run errands close by when my wife has the car on the weekends.

globular-toast 2 days ago||
> Yes because it’s completely safe to bike everywhere and how would I bring the groceries back?

Pannier bags. I did this for years. Before I got panniers I filled a big camping rucksack and cycled, but I wouldn't recommend that. Use a small backpack in addition to panniers if you have to, but having just the panniers feels the best.

However, in terms of safety you are unfortunately right. I didn't have a car so I went everywhere by bike but I was essentially a third class citizen in many places. Felt like I could just get wiped out and nobody would even care. There were no people around, only cars. I hate cars, so I had to get a car too :(

wibbily 3 days ago||||
That's worse? I don't want my car to track me, I'm def not going to volunteer that information to Uber.
anonym29 3 days ago|||
Your car is tracking much more than rideshare apps even can. Uber, Lyft, whoever gets point to point trip information, maybe audio recording in the car. Modern personally owned automobiles are getting everything, all the time. It knows when you're home, when you're not, many record all audio all the time, some are recording video, some are tracking your sexual activity in the car.

At this point, I treat rideshare like public transit: I assume I'm being watched, but I get to skip the permanent always-on tracking for the other 99% of the time that I'm not in the car.

Also, if you own a car, the state knows where you're going and when, per ALPR systems. With Uber or Lyft or a robotaxi, there's a layer between my personal information and the state. It's not an insurmountable layer, as rideshare / robotaxi services can always be subpoena'd, but adding a layer of extra work for the state is a net gain to my privacy.

anonym29 3 days ago|||
Also, for what it's worth, you don't have to use same service on each leg of your trip, you don't need to have it pick you up at your front door, and you don't need to have it drop you off at your exact destination. While for some people, these are admittedly imperfect improvements (you can't really effectively conceal your destination as easily if it's, say, an airport, there's also absolutely nothing stopping you from calculating the cost of your full trip with an equidistant destination, ordering a short trip (not to your final destination), and offering your driver a reasonable amount of cash to take you the rest of the way. Uber/lyft themselves are con artists charging riders WAY more than they pay drivers anyway. You can get away with paying a fraction of what the app would charge you, paying the driver way more than they would otherwise receive, and cutting the parasite (the multi-billion-dollar corporation providing zero value after connecting you with a driver) out of the middle.
Marsymars 3 days ago|||
There are still 2025 model cars where you can just pull the fuse for the modem and telematics module with no real ill effects.
asdff 2 days ago||
Can you pull the fuse for the stability control? For the radar brake that gives false positives? For the damn steer by wire and throttle by wire?
Marsymars 2 days ago||
Clearly you’re not actually interested in a modern vehicle regardless of capabilities, so I don’t think that there’s any real point in detailing which of those things can be disabled.
asdff 1 day ago||
What capabilities are gained from having steering in 8 bit instead of a direct linkage?
raw_anon_1111 3 days ago|||
That’s a lost cause between tag readers and if you carry a cell phone.
Acrobatic_Road 2 days ago|||
Then you have to carry a phone, which is even worse.
drnick1 2 days ago|||
You just need to pull the fuse or physically remove the telematics unit. In some cars you need to partially disassemble the dash to do this, but there are plenty of tutorials on YouTube. An independent shop should also be able to do this, although dealers will generally refuse since they are among the ones benefiting from the "telemetry," aka spyware.
pabs3 2 days ago|||
Is there a device category that isn't becoming like this?
dartharva 2 days ago||
Vote with your wallet while there's still a chance
asdff 2 days ago||
US government already decided for you, sorry.
QuiEgo 3 days ago||
The is the modern version of "ditch your cable company's horrible DVR for a TiVO". What's old is new again, sadly.
reacharavindh 2 days ago|
Am I missing something? I have a LG nano something TV that has many “smart” features, but I never let it connect to my WiFi ever. Since day 1 it has been hooked up to an AppleTV. Can I not buy any fancy smart TV in 2025 and use it as a dumb HDMI display for AppleTV?
dewey 2 days ago||
Same. I have not seen the interface of my TV for years (Only the input switching UI when switching between my Apple TV and Xbox). This really isp pretty much a "dumb tv" with a setup like this.
Liquix 2 days ago|||
the issue is that eventually SIM cards will be baked in to deliver ads and spyware; there will be no alternatives because everyone was fine with buying smart TVs and not connecting them to wifi.

see: Android's recent transformation into a closed platform which no longer allows users to control devices they purchase. it's important to fight against trends like this loudly and vehemently while we still can.

cosmic_ape 2 days ago||
Second that. There were articles a year or two ago about TVs trying to connect to any open Wi-Fi they can find, without you asking them. But hopefully LG wouldn’t go that far.
ileonichwiesz 2 days ago||
At that point you just open up the back of the TV and drive a screwdriver into the WiFi chip.
strangegecko 2 days ago||
Goodbye warranty
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