Top
Best
New

Posted by fleahunter 12/12/2025

Sick of smart TVs? Here are your best options(arstechnica.com)
636 points | 532 commentspage 2
aceazzameen 12/13/2025|
We're running a solution that isn't perfect and isn't for everyone. We have a nice Sony Android TV along with a pihole. But on the TV itself I installed f-droid and netguard. Netguard's UI sucks on a TV, but it's workable. I use it to block Internet access to everything including Google. Only a few streaming apps have internet access. There was some trial and error with a handful of dependencies too.

If I need to update an app, I temporarily allow Google services access. All the streaming apps work well, except for HBO Max which takes a few minutes to load. I suspect it has a long timeout/retry count for something I'm blocking. But once it loads, it's fine.

I also use a different and basic home launcher so we can open the apps we want immediately, without having to deal with shifting algorithm-based icons. But even if we use the Google launcher, it's mostly empty and free of ads because it can't connect. It does still capture what I recently watch though.

Overall it's a decent experience, mainly because we're not being bombarded by more ad algorithms.

kazinator 12/13/2025||
About commercial displays:

> A spokesperson from Panasonic Connect North America told me that digital signage displays are made to be on for 16 to 24 hours per day and with high brightness levels to accommodate “retail and public environments.”

Some TV's err on the side of being too dim for daytime viewing in a bright room; that could only be a plus.

If it's too bright in a way that can't be turned down, you could always DIY a tinted shield to put over it for evening viewing. We used to use things like that over CRT monitors once upon a time.

> Their rugged construction and heat management systems make them ideal for demanding commercial use, but these same features can result in higher energy consumption, louder operation, and limited compatibility with home entertainment systems.

I've never heard a commercial flat screen display make a sound.

> Panasonic’s representative also pointed out that real TVs offer consumer-friendly features for watching TV, like “home-optimized picture tuning, simplified audio integration, and user-friendly menu interfaces.”

That person doesn't understand how this would be used at all. The user hooking up their streaming box to the display panel only needs the panel to do video (e.g. via HDMI cable). The display is not involved in audio at all.

I use a 1/8" plug stereo cable going straight from the Android box to a pair of RCA jacks in the speaker system. Bluetooth could be used but the wire has lower latency, 100% reliability, and not using BT means that the speakers are available for pairing if someone wants to use them from a phone. They have a remote control that can switch between two copper line inputs, and BT. The TV's volume is kept at 1%; it would make no difference if it had no speakers.

class3shock 12/13/2025||
I'm less bothered by the ever present smart tv and more bothered that there is no way to just turn on the tv and go straight to input from a certain port. Would love to know TV's that just do that. My old Samsung constantly forces me to click through sources and out of smart features to get to the hdmi from my computer everytime I turn it on.
abdullahkhalids 12/13/2025||
I just bought a LG 50" UA7000 [1] that goes straight to HDMI on turning on. I am using it as a additional screen for my laptop. I am hoping using one screen two feet away and one screen 6 feet away will preserve my eyesight a bit longer.

A minor problem is that it displays "Turning on AI voice features" every time I turn it on, but those features are not actually turned on. It probably tries to, but since I never connected the TV to the internet, this fails. Still have to figure out how to get rid of the message.

[1] https://www.bestbuy.ca/en-ca/product/lg-50-ua7000-4k-uhd-hdr...

duffyjp 12/13/2025|||
We have two Hisense TVs that both allow this. One is Roku based and the other Google TV. Neither is connected to wifi. I’d recommend the Google flavor, it has a lot more control over the settings and will auto suspend in a reasonable period if no input is being sent. The Roku’s minimum auto suspend is 4 HOURS.

They were cheap and the picture quality is great. Not OLED level, but jeeze I had to share a 27” CRT for my SNES as a kid—

noveltyaccount 12/13/2025|||
Samsung had a hidden hospitality menu, or hotel mode, search for how to access it for your model. You can have it go right to an input on power on.
dizhn 12/13/2025||
Getting an hospitality variant tv might be an option too. I have a Samsung one which does have some smart features but they are mostly backend related. I think there's only YouTube on the user facing side. I got it because they are support to be better TVs for the money but it was such a huge pain to set up that I wouldn't do it again.
burlesona 12/13/2025|||
My recent Sony TV does this.

But also I pretty much never use the TV button to turn it on, I click a button on one of the connected devices to wake it and the TV turns itself on with that input selected. Even if it’s already on, if I want to switch from one device to another I can just wake the other device and it will switch inputs for me. It works really well, I almost never have to use the input selector and it just does the right thing reliably.

Gigachad 12/13/2025|||
HDMI CEC should be able to to turn on TVs direct to the input. Sadly few desktops seem to support it.
pabs3 12/13/2025|||
Apparently "almost no PC GPU has hardware support for CEC" according to Arch. Wonder if that is outdated and modern GPUs do?

https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/HDMI-CEC

aprilnya 12/13/2025|||
This is still pretty much the case. There are ways to do it (i.e. adapters that sit between your HDMI cable and GPU) but it’s wonky.
moltopoco 12/13/2025|||
The Steam Machine will support CEC, hopefully other PC vendors will take note and adopt it.
saint_yossarian 12/13/2025|||
My Samsung QN90B does that just fine, it's only a few years old. IIRC there's a setting somewhere in the menu to not boot to the home screen. It also doesn't nag me about anything, although I only enable wifi when I want to update.
saint_yossarian 12/13/2025||
Just checked now: the setting is General & Privacy -> Start Screen Options -> Start with Smart Hub Home.
Suppafly 12/13/2025|||
Is the input device on prior to turning the tv on? Some of them will automatically switch if an input is on or gets switched on.
adambb 12/13/2025|||
LG (UT8000 at least) TVs have an option to default to last used input, that works reliably.
wmf 12/13/2025||
Roku has this feature.
pabs3 12/13/2025||
Hopefully this lawsuit will mean people can modify the software on their smart TVs; replace it with a Linux distro running KDE Bigscreen or similar.

https://sfconservancy.org/copyleft-compliance/vizio.html

amelius 12/12/2025||
Unfortunately cars are becoming like smart TVs in this respect.
00N8 12/13/2025||
I'll never buy a car manufactured after about 2014 for this reason. I'm planning to just keep getting repairs & upgrades done on my model year 2006 for at least the next 10-20 years. By then perhaps I will want to switch to electric, but I'll do it by electrifying something older.

Cars from around 1998-2014 usually have side curtain airbags & adequate rollover durability. The only improvements since then that I'd even want at all are better EV batteries & marginal efficiency gains for IC engines, but those can be retrofitted &/or aren't worth the anti features they also added IMO.

If car companies want my business they'll have to remove the telemetry & automatic updates.

I don't care if I end up paying more to drive an old car eventually, but this approach has also been saving me money so far.

zeroonetwothree 12/13/2025|||
ESC is pretty good for safety. I would not want a car without that. Cars from 2014 do have it of course but not those much older.

FWIW I have two 2018 models with zero “smart” features.

asdff 12/13/2025||
No thank you. I will take predictable handling and a steering wheel that responds to my inputs. Loss of traction situations are exactly where I don’t want any systems helping. I need to countersteer and feel the car. Speaking as someone who was raised in winter driving and encouraged to find the limits of handling in snow and ice covered parking lots.

Of course if you are one of those drivers who removes their hands from the wheel in a stressful situation (there are many), these systems will help somewhat.

timc3 12/13/2025||
It really depends on the situation and the car. I’ve had it really help and not take over too much (very modern Porsche in the mountains), and systems where it was actively making the situation much worse by alternately locking the brakes on individual wheels. That was down a long hill which turned icy a third of the way down in a borrowed 2013 BMW F30, and I still consider it luck that I kept it on the road and nothing was coming the other way.
aceazzameen 12/13/2025||||
This is the same reason why we haven't bought a new vehicle. Our 2013 Toyota is fantastic.
epiccoleman 12/13/2025||
I've got a 2013 Honda Fit that I love. It's just worked nearly perfectly with only routine maintenance since we bought it used in 2016.
Grazester 12/13/2025|||
I have a car from 2017 that is perfectly dumb. It had been a rehash of a car being produced since 2010 though. All other models of the same year by the manufacturer had telemetry, mobile app start etc. All those models are now dumb though since for those earlier years they used 3G wireless which is now a dead spectrum.
anonym29 12/12/2025|||
It's not feasible for everyone, but between grocery delivery services, telehealth, etc - if you work remotely anyway, it may be surprisingly feasible to get rid of your car altogether and only Uber/Lyft as needed, at least until robotaxis expand into your area at a fraction of the price of traditional ride-hailing apps.
raw_anon_1111 12/12/2025|||
I work remotely, my gym is downstairs as well as a convenience store with some fresh (overpriced) items, a bar and an (overpriced) restaurant.

My barber and grocery store is a $9 Uber Ride each way. So I could get away with a car easily where I live now. My wife and I have been down to one car since Covid.

But when I was in the burbs if metro Atlanta where everything wasn’t so close, it would have been over $100 easy going from one side to the other or basically anywhere besides the grocery store.

My car insurance is only $176 a month for my wife and I. It doesn’t make sense not to have a car, even if you include the minor maintenance on a car that would be hardly ever driven. Even at a theoretical $400 car payment + $176 in insurance, it still easy to come out ahead.

asdff 12/13/2025||
Only a $9 ride in 2025? What is that 1-2 miles? Just bike.
raw_anon_1111 12/13/2025||
Yes because it’s completely safe to bike everywhere and how would I bring the groceries back?

I live in a tourist area where there are a lot of drivers causing the prices to be low. I noticed it in Las Vegas too.

The only reason I know is I use Uber to run errands close by when my wife has the car on the weekends.

globular-toast 12/13/2025||
> Yes because it’s completely safe to bike everywhere and how would I bring the groceries back?

Pannier bags. I did this for years. Before I got panniers I filled a big camping rucksack and cycled, but I wouldn't recommend that. Use a small backpack in addition to panniers if you have to, but having just the panniers feels the best.

However, in terms of safety you are unfortunately right. I didn't have a car so I went everywhere by bike but I was essentially a third class citizen in many places. Felt like I could just get wiped out and nobody would even care. There were no people around, only cars. I hate cars, so I had to get a car too :(

wibbily 12/12/2025||||
That's worse? I don't want my car to track me, I'm def not going to volunteer that information to Uber.
anonym29 12/12/2025|||
Your car is tracking much more than rideshare apps even can. Uber, Lyft, whoever gets point to point trip information, maybe audio recording in the car. Modern personally owned automobiles are getting everything, all the time. It knows when you're home, when you're not, many record all audio all the time, some are recording video, some are tracking your sexual activity in the car.

At this point, I treat rideshare like public transit: I assume I'm being watched, but I get to skip the permanent always-on tracking for the other 99% of the time that I'm not in the car.

Also, if you own a car, the state knows where you're going and when, per ALPR systems. With Uber or Lyft or a robotaxi, there's a layer between my personal information and the state. It's not an insurmountable layer, as rideshare / robotaxi services can always be subpoena'd, but adding a layer of extra work for the state is a net gain to my privacy.

anonym29 12/12/2025|||
Also, for what it's worth, you don't have to use same service on each leg of your trip, you don't need to have it pick you up at your front door, and you don't need to have it drop you off at your exact destination. While for some people, these are admittedly imperfect improvements (you can't really effectively conceal your destination as easily if it's, say, an airport, there's also absolutely nothing stopping you from calculating the cost of your full trip with an equidistant destination, ordering a short trip (not to your final destination), and offering your driver a reasonable amount of cash to take you the rest of the way. Uber/lyft themselves are con artists charging riders WAY more than they pay drivers anyway. You can get away with paying a fraction of what the app would charge you, paying the driver way more than they would otherwise receive, and cutting the parasite (the multi-billion-dollar corporation providing zero value after connecting you with a driver) out of the middle.
Marsymars 12/13/2025|||
There are still 2025 model cars where you can just pull the fuse for the modem and telematics module with no real ill effects.
asdff 12/13/2025||
Can you pull the fuse for the stability control? For the radar brake that gives false positives? For the damn steer by wire and throttle by wire?
Marsymars 12/13/2025||
Clearly you’re not actually interested in a modern vehicle regardless of capabilities, so I don’t think that there’s any real point in detailing which of those things can be disabled.
asdff 12/14/2025||
What capabilities are gained from having steering in 8 bit instead of a direct linkage?
raw_anon_1111 12/12/2025|||
That’s a lost cause between tag readers and if you carry a cell phone.
Acrobatic_Road 12/13/2025|||
Then you have to carry a phone, which is even worse.
drnick1 12/13/2025|||
You just need to pull the fuse or physically remove the telematics unit. In some cars you need to partially disassemble the dash to do this, but there are plenty of tutorials on YouTube. An independent shop should also be able to do this, although dealers will generally refuse since they are among the ones benefiting from the "telemetry," aka spyware.
pabs3 12/13/2025|||
Is there a device category that isn't becoming like this?
dartharva 12/13/2025||
Vote with your wallet while there's still a chance
asdff 12/13/2025||
US government already decided for you, sorry.
amundskm 12/12/2025||
I have had an old PC hooked up to the hdmi port of an old TV for years and it works exactly as I want. I have full control and don't have to deal with smart tv ads.
QuiEgo 12/13/2025||
The is the modern version of "ditch your cable company's horrible DVR for a TiVO". What's old is new again, sadly.
bradley13 12/13/2025||
I'm a huge fan of projectors. With large TVs, you have a huge black wall when you aren't watching. With a projector you can have a pull-down screen that disappears when you don't need it. Or leave it down - it's white, and a lot less visually intrusive.
globular-toast 12/13/2025|
The only problem with projectors is there's not much choice if you're sensitive to DLP rainbow effect. I haven't tried one of the newer ones with a faster colour wheel, though. It means I've had to go JVC DLA projectors, but these are now ridiculously expensive and I can't see myself ever spending that much on, well, anything.
sod 12/13/2025|||
Yes, projectors with 3LCD tech is what you are looking for. They produce all 3 colors at once via 3 distinct lcds inside the chassis and mix them ahead of time. There are a few to choose from, but they all cost above 3000.

The reason why projectors don't use a single rgb lcd (like monitors) to produce the color is the same why all sub 5000$ projectors use pixel shift to fake 4k resolution: Too much light is blocked by the lcd itself if the individual pixels become too small.

bpye 12/13/2025|||
I am somewhat sensitive to the effect and have been okay with an X3000i. If I scan my eyes across a black screen with white text, I can still perceive the effect - but it's nowhere near as bad as some older DLP projectors.
reacharavindh 12/13/2025||
Am I missing something? I have a LG nano something TV that has many “smart” features, but I never let it connect to my WiFi ever. Since day 1 it has been hooked up to an AppleTV. Can I not buy any fancy smart TV in 2025 and use it as a dumb HDMI display for AppleTV?
dewey 12/13/2025||
Same. I have not seen the interface of my TV for years (Only the input switching UI when switching between my Apple TV and Xbox). This really isp pretty much a "dumb tv" with a setup like this.
Liquix 12/13/2025|||
the issue is that eventually SIM cards will be baked in to deliver ads and spyware; there will be no alternatives because everyone was fine with buying smart TVs and not connecting them to wifi.

see: Android's recent transformation into a closed platform which no longer allows users to control devices they purchase. it's important to fight against trends like this loudly and vehemently while we still can.

cosmic_ape 12/13/2025||
Second that. There were articles a year or two ago about TVs trying to connect to any open Wi-Fi they can find, without you asking them. But hopefully LG wouldn’t go that far.
ileonichwiesz 12/13/2025||
At that point you just open up the back of the TV and drive a screwdriver into the WiFi chip.
strangegecko 12/13/2025||
Goodbye warranty
bpye 12/13/2025|
I have a projector, a BenQ X3000i, in my living room, with a retractable screen. It has the plus side of not needing a dedicated wall, but does perform poorly (vs a TV) if the room isn't darkened. Maybe eventually I'll tie it into my home automation with some smart curtains.

It has low latency, will do 1080p 240Hz, 4k (pixel shift) 60Hz and HDR. Can even do 3D content if you really want...

BenQ did include an Android TV stick in the box, but you can just not hook it up to the projector - problem solved.

More comments...