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Posted by thatoneengineer 12/16/2025

The World Happiness Report is beset with methodological problems(yaschamounk.substack.com)
167 points | 212 commentspage 2
screye 12/16/2025|
There are no material conditions that would convince me to live in a cold, dark and culturally introverted place. Anecdotally, my tropical peers agree with this opinion. Seasonal affective disorder plays an outsized role in my ability to like a place. On the flip side, I've heard many people describe living in warm & humid weather as torture.

My point is, aggregating factors for happiness to find the best country is like aggregating people's favorite colors to find the best color. Each individual's needs and circumstances are unique, and what will make them happy will vary widely as those needs and circumstances vary.

Some interesting (suspect?) findings from the quoted 2023 paper: (2008 - 2017 data)

* Somaliland had the 4th least worries

* Russians were the 7th least angry

* Chinese were the 8th best rested

* Icelanders did great on every metric, but felt very tired (rank 190)

* Venezuelans smiled the 12th most (Panama, Paraguay, Costa Rica did even better)

* Laotians smile the 3rd most, but are also among the angriest (202) !!?

adolph 12/16/2025||
> Laotians smile the 3rd most, but are also among the angriest

From "Be Careful Where You Smile: Culture Shapes Judgments of Intelligence and Honesty of Smiling Individuals"

  Although numerous studies confirm that positive perceptions of smiling 
  individuals seem to be universal, anecdotal evidence suggests that in some 
  cultures the opposite may be true. For example, a well-known Russian proverb 
  says ‘Улыбкa, бeз пpичины - пpизнaк дypaчины’ (smiling with no reason is a 
  sign of stupidity). The Norwegian government humorously explains nuances of 
  Norwegian culture by indicating that when a stranger on the street smiles at 
  Norwegians, they may assume that the stranger is insane
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4840223/
typs 12/17/2025||
I grew up in a very warm place, then moved to a very cold place and was miserable. I’d never done a winter and every year I was deeply unhappy for huge spans of the year.

But then I moved to Denmark from that cold place and found myself very happy! Of course circumstances change and a single account means little but I definitely believe some societies lend themselves to greater happiness than others, even in the very developed world.

rdtsc 12/16/2025||
> At a minimum, you would expect the happiest countries in the world to have some of the lowest incidences of adverse mental health outcomes. But it turns out that the residents of the same Scandinavian countries that the press dutifully celebrates for their supposed happiness are especially likely to take antidepressants or even to commit suicide.

Exactly. WHR is a wonderful tool to study how policy institutes and media work together to build a narrative over the years.

> “Please imagine a ladder with steps numbered from zero at the bottom to ten at the top. Suppose we say that the top of the ladder represents the best possible life for you and the bottom of the ladder represents the worst possible life for you. If the top step is 10 and the bottom step is 0, on which step of the ladder do you feel you personally stand at the present time?”

One issue identified in the article that in some countries that really isn't taken to mean happiness, it's taken to mean "wealth". My take is simple that someone locked in a cage for the rest of their life without a chance to escape can still confidently put a 10 down. The cage may very well be golden, so it doesn't say much about their absolute happiness or suffering so to speak. Another situation is a person who sees more achievable opportunity - "if I can do x, y, z, I'll be higher on the ladder". Then they'd report themselves low, because they see a path to reach higher. But in the report they'll just look like the saddest person ever.

paulsutter 12/16/2025||
Normalizing for language and culture seem like the hardest parts of any global survey. How are the translations done of that one question and are there any cultural implications?
nephihaha 12/17/2025||
Same issue I have... The Nordic countries have high rates of alcoholism and depression (partly due to low sunlight in winter). They do or did have some things right, but it is questionable whether those still exist. Why are they continually claimed as happy?
didgetmaster 12/16/2025||
There is an old saying that you are as happy as you choose to be. While some people have experienced very challenging circumstances and have trouble feeling happy; most miserable people are that way because they let little things get in the way of their happiness.

There are rich, healthy, popular people who feel awful. They might feel like a failure because they are constantly comparing themselves with more successful people (or at least believe all the wonderful posts on social media). They might immerse themselves in negative thoughts about the world and their own immediate surroundings.

But if you are always counting your blessings and trying to serve people who are less fortunate; you might realize that 'It's a Wonderful Life'.

jampekka 12/16/2025||
The World Happiness Report extensively discusses positive and negative affect in Chapter 2 and the relatively high suicide/death of despair rates of the Nordic countries in Chapter 6. These seem to be totally ignored in TFA.

https://www.worldhappiness.report/ed/2025/caring-and-sharing...

https://www.worldhappiness.report/ed/2025/supporting-others-...

albumen 12/16/2025||
This comprehensive response/rebuttal [1] buried in the article’s comments, by one of the authors of the World Happiness Report, is worth reading. One of the most interesting points is how subjective well-being indicators predict people’s voting behavior: “…in 2016 US presidential elections, subjective well-being indicators - especially Cantril Ladder now and expected Cantril Ladder in five years - measured on a county level predicted voting for Trump better than any county-level economic indicator.” The unhappier people were, the more likely they voted for Trump.

Also, it links to a report on why Nordic countries tend to perform so well on life evaluation indicators: “ the most prominent explanations include factors related to the quality of institutions, such as reliable and extensive welfare benefits, low corruption, and well-functioning democracy and state institutions. Furthermore, Nordic citizens experience a high sense of autonomy and freedom, as well as high levels of social trust towards each other, which play an important role in determining life satisfaction. On the other hand, we show that a few popular explanations for Nordic happiness such as the small population and homogeneity of the Nordic countries, and a few counterarguments against Nordic happiness such as the cold weather and the suicide rates, actually don’t seem to have much to do with Nordic happiness.”

[1] https://open.substack.com/pub/yaschamounk/p/the-world-happin...

Hamuko 12/17/2025||
>The happiest countries in the world are in Scandinavia; this year, Finland is followed by Denmark, Iceland and Sweden.

Finland and Iceland are not in Scandinavia. Iceland is in fact an island quite far removed from the peninsula.

rendall 12/17/2025|
There is no coherent principle that that cleanly includes Denmark, Norway, and Sweden while excluding Finland. Not geography, language, religion, culture or history.

Finland is not on the Scandinavian Peninsula, but it is physically contiguous with Sweden and Norway and deeply integrated into the same northern European ecological, economic, and transport space. If peninsulas are the criterion, then Denmark is already a special pleading exception.

Finland is officially bilingual, Swedish is a national language, and Swedish is historically entrenched in Finnish administration, law, and elites. Meanwhile Finnish is spoken by a large minority in Sweden. So language does not draw a clean boundary.

Lutheranism dominates across Finland, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, and Iceland.

Finnish culture is distinct in some ways, but so is Icelandic relative to Denmark, and Norwegian relative to Swedish. Distinctiveness exists inside the supposed core as much as between core and periphery.

Finland was part of the Swedish realm for centuries, was governed through the same institutions, and emerged into modernity shaped by the same legal and administrative traditions.

euroderf 12/17/2025||
As an aside, Finns have said to me that in general Finland is open to adopting political & economic ideas from Sweden, letting Sweden be at the leading edge, with the caveat that first Sweden tries them out... and IF they work they might be cribbed by Finland.

I don't know whether this attitude still prevails tho.

rendall 12/17/2025||
The Nordic... or shall I say Scandinavian nations all crib from each other. Education, family policy, labor markets, digital government, environmental policy. Leadership just rotates depending on the issue.
dang 12/16/2025||
Related. Others?

U.S. hits new low in World Happiness Report - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45378896 - Sept 2025 (277 comments)

U.S. No Longer Ranks Among 20 Happiest Countries - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39763595 - March 2024 (92 comments)

The Finnish Secret to Happiness? Knowing When You Have Enough - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35411641 - April 2023 (19 comments)

World Happiness Report 2023 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35230812 - March 2023 (2 comments)

World Happiness Report, 2019 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19615776 - April 2019 (60 comments)

Why Denmark dominates the World Happiness Report rankings year after year - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16720551 - March 2018 (3 comments)

Happiness report: Norway is the happiest place on earth - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13913145 - March 2017 (158 comments)

World Happiness Report 2015 [pdf] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10793969 - Dec 2015 (22 comments)

Denmark 'happiest' country in the world - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=234018 - July 2008 (1 comment)

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Bonus highlight: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5152494 (Feb 2013)

zkmon 12/16/2025|
Unless it includes Sentinel islands, I'm not going to spend any reading minutes on those reports.
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