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Posted by artninja1988 5 days ago

How China built its ‘Manhattan Project’ to rival the West in AI chips(www.japantimes.co.jp)
469 points | 605 commentspage 3
neilv 5 days ago|
Of course China will probably catch up, and surpass, in this and most things that it sets its mind to.

Instead of the US recently veering into batpoop-insane policy, the US should be focused on promoting a peaceful and equitable world that it would like to live in when it's not top dog.

SideburnsOfDoom 5 days ago||
Are these necessary "AI Chips", not just "Chips"?

If - hear me out - this whole LLM AI thing turns out be be overhyped, won't this capability be useful for a lot of other things , from consumer electronics to combat drones.

e.g. Useful in the growing Chinese EV sector. And lessening dependence on chips made in Taiwan seems strategic.

It seems broader than a bet on "AI" specifically. A more strategic move.

From the article, first paragraph:

> cutting-edge semiconductor chips that power artificial intelligence, smartphones and weapons central to Western military dominance.

scotty79 5 days ago||
It's kind of nasty that a fresh society of capable people has the drive to achieve technological excellence and the incumbents do whatever they can to delay this, even though it's inevitable and there's a lot to gain by empowering them. All in the name of "they are not us".

World has gained so much from modern Chinese industrial revolution. Why suddenly everyone got cold feet? Nobody was stopping Germany or Japan on their way up even though they were literal former enemies with history of brutal warfare. China never done anything even comparable to others.

acheong08 5 days ago||
> Japan

Pretty sure the US pressured Japan to up their exchange rate which was one of the factors in their stagflation. Germany never threatened the power of the US

scotty79 5 days ago||
So the US has always been terrible to the countries which growth they exploited?
Invictus0 5 days ago|||
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Uyghurs_in_Chin...
scotty79 5 days ago|||
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_sterilization_in_Ca...

Give China 50 years and I'm sure they are gonna be properly sad about what happened to Uyghurs, western style.

Or not. Measures applied to Uyghurs were done under the banner of fight with terror, which the West waved fervently as well. Although US decided to direct their zeal outside, bombing several countries and killing countless "enemies" which were defined as everybody within the blast radius. Were attempts of China at controlling their islamist minority so uncomparably worse?

Especially when we compare them to how they approached the problem of pandemics. They obviously have no qualms about attempting sweeping solutions regardless of religion and ethnicity of those affected.

immibis 5 days ago|||
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_genocide
christophilus 5 days ago||
I mean, if we’re going to make that comparison, China today looks much more like pre-war Germany and Japan— set on expansion. That’s pretty clearly what the anti-China crowd is worried about. Tibet, Taiwan, Philippine islands, ever expanding naval bases, aggressive displays of power around Australia, prison camps and sterilization programs, and so forth.
scotty79 5 days ago|||
How does it compare to the last 50-70 years of US actions? Even if all narratives are true and significant, China could still massively benefit the world same way US did despite its vast shortcomings.
olalonde 5 days ago|||
China has never had expansionist ambitions. On the contrary, modern Chinese foreign policy is explicitly grounded in non-interventionism and respect for sovereignty (the Five Principles of Peaceful Coexistence). Xinjiang, Tibet and, per Beijing, Taiwan, are internal matters. The "Philippine islands" have been claimed by multiple states long before the PRC existed.
stackedinserter 4 days ago||
Western strength is not tech that we have today, but the velocity we're moving forward. Any tech can be and will be stolen, copied and improved, the only way to remain ahead is to run faster.
Havoc 5 days ago||
It was kinda inevitable.

A country with technical ability and ambition like China was never going to go "Oh only one company in netherlands can do it? Damn I guess we're snookered then".

gnarlouse 5 days ago||
Hopefully this doesn’t stoke a third and final world war.
assemblyman 4 days ago||
I feel the American media and general public has gotten psyched by the recent announcements coming from China. This might be new weapons or Deepseek or conveniences in the cities. I wish the Chinese people all the best and sincerely hope they prosper. At the same time, I really wish Americans would get out of this panic mode. You answered several challenges over the last 250 years. Some were existential threats. America generally lays out its problems for everyone to see. Americans tend to be extremely self-critical. This is often misconstrued by some to be signs of weakness. Anyone who believes this is, in my opinion, delusional.

As an aside, there are some comments about the "Chinese way of thinking" and the "American way of thinking". I generally think these discussions veer off into notions of cultural superiority. That, also in my opinion, is the mark of weak minds. The fact is once something is shown to be possible, it is exponentially easier to duplicate and improve it. America did this with German technology, China did it with American technology and I am sure countries like India are going to quickly get there too (I am not suggesting the Germans didn't learn from others themselves). This sets a firm base for iterative improvements.

To riff off another comment, China's progress wasn't done by God. America will learn and adopt what's valuable and discard what's not. If I have learned anything about Americans (of all backgrounds), they don't shy away from a challenge. For all its faults, I still personally will root for a society based on something like the American constitution.

Ancalagon 5 days ago||
Seems like demographics, AI, and tech parity are converging on a Taiwan takeover attempt in the 2027-2030 timeframe.
jakeinspace 5 days ago||
If China actually catches up and surpasses the West/TSMC in fab technology and production, I think they'd have a better option, which is simply flooding the world market with high-end chips and obliterating the Taiwanese economy. Eventually, joining an economically dominant China might become more palatable, or a necessity.
noosphr 5 days ago|||
At this point I'm willing to wave around the little red book for a 1TB of ram.

I don't have that many kidneys left to buy gpus, ram and ssd at the prices they are now, let alone the prices next year.

simmerup 5 days ago||||
How much money would Taiwan have to be offerred to voluntarily place their heads under the boot of China
kjkjadksj 5 days ago||
The leadership will have a price in mind and they won’t be the ones under the boot. Everyone has a price to look the other way even if they think they are principled now.
treyd 5 days ago|||
This would be more in-line with their strategy in other areas. Quietly massively improve technical capability and then utterly out-compete international competitors. They did this with solar, multicopters, are in progress with doing this with TVs, nuclear power, etc. War is expensive and destructive, it's easier and nicer to just negate the economic relevance of your opponents if you have the time and resources to do it (which they do).
mywittyname 5 days ago||
China is also doing this with weapons. It's just a little more difficult normal people to see the results because people can't get a Dongfeng 2x series rocket from Ali Express.

Realistically, the general public doesn't have access to an honest appraise of their capabilities. So we are left to infer from their accomplishments in other high-tech areas what their military industry is capable of producing.

wood_spirit 5 days ago|||
China is building all kinds of suggestive tech including invasion barge piers to land heavy stuff quickly once a beachhead has been established http://www.hisutton.com/Chinese-Invasion-Barge-OSINT.html
cpursley 5 days ago|||
I know mass media keeps pounding this "eventual scenario" (manufacturing consent and all). Maybe it will happen, but the Chinese think on longer timelines than the ADHD West and are probably banking on A). Out-attriting, B). Out-innovating. If both happen, we might find ourselves with a situation where Taiwan voluntarily wants to align closer with China as the West flails.
simmerup 5 days ago|||
China know that the one child policy has fucked their demographics and that their future isn't as rosy as it might appear now
mistercheph 5 days ago|||
Why would the nation that implemented the one-child policy be unable to implement a three child policy?
christophilus 5 days ago|||
Reversing demographic momentum isn’t so easy. You have a cascade effect which happens, and high costs of a massive elderly population can’t be borne by a sudden baby boom. Also, through the medical system, etc, you can force people to abort their children, but it’s harder to force them to make children.
DoctorOetker 5 days ago||
They will just tax condoms to sponsor the elderly homes.
cpursley 5 days ago|||
And that's more of the "propaganda narrative" (google that term) getting pounded at us from all channels over the past several years. It's so 1984 - remember when we were told they were growing too much and getting overpopulated and the planet was going extent any moment? So which one is it? Anyways, their population decrease will be offset by AI and automation all while they still pump out more honor students than the entire West combined. They'll be fine is what I'm saying.
Herring 5 days ago|||
> manufacturing consent

I think it's more like smearing/projection, like Republican conspiracy theories about Democrats being pedophiles. Guess where the real pedophiles were hanging out the whole time.

Herring 5 days ago|||
The track record says China will probably just buy Taiwan.

If you hate invasions so much, you should probably focus your energies on Venezuela. Looks like Trump might start a war for Christmas.

aunty_helen 5 days ago|||
Wars are old fashioned. This is a “special military operation”
DoctorOetker 5 days ago||
is 1950 old-fashioned? The Korean War was originally called a "police operation"
dluan 5 days ago||
Peaceful democratic transition is also on the table when KMT wins back the presidency next.
pinewurst 4 days ago||
Read as "anyone connected flees to the US, anyone deemed political gets a free relocation to a Xinjiang re-education camp, and lots of new mainland 'mothers' live with those allowed to remain".

Why would anyone voluntarily sign up to have Winnie the Pooh's boot on their face?

dluan 4 days ago||
You have brain worms
letmetweakit 5 days ago||
Some competition for Nvidia is good, might drive down prices. One can only hope.
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