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Posted by anigbrowl 12/21/2025

Clair Obscur having its Indie Game Game Of The Year award stripped due to AI use(www.thegamer.com)
186 points | 403 commentspage 3
wtcactus 12/21/2025|
It’s interesting, because we have examples of other sects in the past that also opposed human progress through technology. History is repeating itself.

For instance, see Luddites: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luddite

ad_hockey 12/21/2025||
That does the Luddites a bit of a disservice:

> But the Luddites themselves “were totally fine with machines,” says Kevin Binfield, editor of the 2004 collection Writings of the Luddites. They confined their attacks to manufacturers who used machines in what they called “a fraudulent and deceitful manner” to get around standard labor practices. “They just wanted machines that made high-quality goods,” says Binfield, “and they wanted these machines to be run by workers who had gone through an apprenticeship and got paid decent wages. Those were their only concerns.”[1]

[1] https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/what-the-luddites-rea...

1gn15 12/21/2025|||
In that case, the neo-Luddites are worse than the original Luddites, then? Since many are definitely not "totally fine with the machines", and definitely do not confine their attacks only on the manufacturers that go against worker rights, but they include the average person in their attacks. And the original Luddites already got a lot of hate for attempting to hold back progress.
ad_hockey 12/21/2025||
I don't know about worse, but I think the situations are very similar. It's inaccurate to think the Luddites just hated technological advancement for the sake of it. They were happy to use machines; why wouldn't they be, if they had a back-breaking and monotonous job and the machine made it easier?

The issue is not the technology per se, it's how it's applied. If it eliminates vast swathes of jobs and drives wages down for those left, then people start to have a problem with it. That was true in the time of the Luddites and it's true today with AI.

wtcactus 12/21/2025|||
That seems a lot like the beef people have nowadays with AI. They also want machines, they love their iPhones and MacBooks.

They just don't like it when the machines are able to do the mediocre job they get paid to do.

Imagine if we had listened to the Luddites back in the day...

eucyclos 12/21/2025|||
I really like Neal Stephenson's neologism 'amistics' - referring to which technologies a culture knows about but chooses not to use.
surgical_fire 12/21/2025||
It's unclear if Gen AI promotes any sort of human progress.

By all means, I use it. In some instances it is useful. I think it is mostly a technology that causes damages to humanity though. I just don't really care about it.

somat 12/22/2025||
The real reason Clair Obscure should not have received indie game of the year in the first place is that it was developed by Sandfall interactive and published by Kepler interactive and as such is not an independent game.
m-schuetz 12/21/2025||
People were against steam engines, tractors, CGI, self-checkouts, and now generative AI. After some initial outrage, it will be tightly integrated into society. Like how LLMs are already widely used to assist in coding.
Ray20 12/21/2025|
Or not. Unlike all of the above, AI directly conflicts with the concept of intellectual property, which is backed by a much larger and more influential field.
joquarky 12/22/2025||
Intellectual property is a purely institutional abstraction agreed upon by arbitrary social contract written to satisfy the standard of "To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts".

AI exists by calculations without invoking law or social agreement.

Which will endure?

IP depends on belief and enforcement.

AI depends on matter and energy.

dartharva 12/21/2025||
I think it's more the fact that they lied before nomination than the AI usage itself. Any institution is bound to disqualify a candidate if it discovers it was admitted on false grounds.

I wonder if the game directors had actually made their case beforehand, they would have perhaps been let to keep the award.

That said, the AI restriction itself is hilarious. Almost all games currently being made would have programmers using copilot, would they all be disqualified for it? Where does this arbitrary line start from?

oneeyedpigeon 12/21/2025||
> Almost all games currently being made would have programmers using copilot

I think that is almost certainly untrue, especially among indie games developers, who are often the most stringent critics of gen ai.

1gn15 12/21/2025|||
Are you sure? A survey by the YouTuber Games And AI found that the vast majority of indie game developers are either using, or considering using AI. Like around 90%.
Mkengin 12/21/2025||||
This is just one example, but today I found this where two people build their passion project using GenAI for image generation (+ photoshop), maybe otherwise this project wouldn't even be possible: https://reddit.com/comments/1prqfsu
m-schuetz 12/21/2025|||
Only when it comes to graphics/art. When it comes to LLMs for code, many people do some amazing mental gymnastics to make it seem like the two are totally different, and one is good while the other is bad.
pwdisswordfishy 12/21/2025|||
> Almost all games currently being made would have programmers using copilot

Which LLM told you that?

dartharva 12/21/2025||
Please, LLM code assistants are ubiquitous enough nowadays with inline code suggestions in vscode on by default. It's an extremely safe claim.
pjmlp 12/21/2025||
That would imply the following to be true,

> Almost all games currently being made would have programmers using VSCode.

Which clearly isn't the case, unless they like to suffer in regards to the Unreal and Unity integrations.

voidfunc 12/21/2025||
> That said, the AI restriction itself is hilarious. Almost all games currently being made would have programmers using copilot, would they all be disqualified for it? Where does this arbitrary line start from?

AI OK: Code

AI Bad: Art, Music.

It's a double standard because people don't think of code as creative. They still think of us as monkeys banging on keyboards.

Fuck 'em. We can replace artists.

spencerflem 12/21/2025|||
You get why people hate AI when AI boosters talk like this, right?
dartharva 12/21/2025||||
> It's a double standard because people don't think of code as creative.

It's more like the code is the scaffolding and support, the art and experience is the core product. When you're watching a play you don't generally give a thought to the technical expertise that went into building the stage and the hall and its logistics, you are only there to appreciate the performance itself - even if said performance would have been impossible to deliver without the aforementioned factors.

realusername 12/21/2025||
I would disagree, code is as much the product in games as the assets.

Games always have their game engine touch and often for indie games it's a good part of the process. See for example Clair Obscur here which clearly has the UE5 caracter hair. It's what the game can and cannot do and shapes the experience.

Then the gameplay itself depend a lot on how the code was made and iterations on the code also shape the gameplay.

Garlef 12/21/2025||
To further this: You can even feel the org structure in games.

- Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth clearly had two completely decoupled teams working on the main game and the open world design respectively

- Cyberpunk 2077 is filled with small shoeboxes of interactable content

zajio1am 12/21/2025||||
It is silly, considering there is obviously much higher chance that code-generating LLM generates copy of existing copyrighted code than image-generating diffusion model generates copy of existing copyrighted image.
altairprime 12/23/2025||
Tangentially, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46369590
torginus 12/21/2025||
Rather than going into a huge rant about this, let me just give a quick anecdote.

It used to be there were tons of websites, like textures.com, which curated a huge database of textures, usable by art professionals and hobbyists alike. Some of it was free, others you had to pay for, both generally speaking, it wasn't too expensive, and if you picked up 3d modeling as a hobby, you could produce pretty decent results without spending a dime.

Then came the huge companies (you know which ones) which slurped up all these websites, and turned them into these SaaS monstrosities, with f2p mechanics. Textures were no longer free, but you had to pay in 'tokens' which you got from a subscription, which pushed you into opaque pricing models, bundling subscriptions, accidental yearly signups with cancellation fees, you know the drill.

Then came AI, which is somehow fair use, and instead of having to pay for that stuff, you could ask SD to generate a tiling rock texture for you.

Is this blatant copyrightwashing? I'd argue yes. But in this case, does copyright uphold any morally supportable princible, or does it help artists get paid?

F no.

instagib 12/21/2025||
All press is good press.

Few care about the mainstream game review sites or oddball game award shows as their track record is terrible (Concord reviews).

Most go by player reviews, word of mouth, and social media.

SonnyTark 12/21/2025||
As an indie game developer the idiots who made this decision do not represent us and are completely detached from actual game production over the last 3 years.

For those who might care, we use generative AI as much as possible in every way possible without compromising our vision, this includes sound, art, animation, and programming. These are often edited or entirely redone (effectively placeholders). It's part of the process, similar to using procedural art generation tools like geometry nodes in Blender or fluid sim particles generators.

And btw, both UE5 and Unity now have gen AI features (and addons) that all developers can and will use.

mvkel 12/21/2025||
This is like disqualifying Banksy because they use stencils
gguncth 12/22/2025|
This policy will be in place for about 2-3 more years at which point it will be excluding almost everything, at which point it will be reversed
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