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Posted by firefoxd 1 day ago

I can't upgrade to Windows 11, now leave me alone(idiallo.com)
536 points | 546 commentspage 2
petcat 1 day ago|
> at this point a Windows machine only belongs to you in name. Microsoft can run arbitrary code on it.

I get what the author is trying to say, but...like... obviously?

II2II 1 day ago||
I get what you're saying, but OS vendors could prevent themselves from running arbitrary code, even from themselves, without the user's authorization if they really wanted to. I'm not sure it is in anyone's best interest since it would affect everything from security updates to automatically installing device drivers (e.g. people would be left with insecure systems or would claim Windows is broken since most would not understand the prompts). It would also be difficult to prevent Microsoft's marketing department from sneaking a trojan horse into things like security update.
charcircuit 1 day ago|||
The average user is not able to understand the code that is running and the 99th percentile user does not want to spend the time to understand the code.
kgwxd 1 day ago|||
Make it do the security stuff out-of-the-box, allow the user to change ANYTHING they want, including turning off the security stuff. Linux! It's in everyone's best interest.
amelius 1 day ago|||
Holds for Apple devices just as well.
souenzzo 1 day ago|||
I mean, the free software community has been saying this for 40 years now.
devnullbrain 1 day ago|||
And it went from unrealistic paranoia to 'like... obviously?' seamlessly.
thiht 1 day ago||
It never was "you're paranoiac", it was "I don't care". Which still holds true when the providers don't abuse this power.
p_ing 1 day ago||||
In 1985, there were no autoupdates/forced updates/or really any available updates that didn't come on physical media.
voidfunc 1 day ago|||
I mean.. how is this different from any OS distribution? Apple can push whatever. So can Red Hat or Ubuntu or Gentoo. Unless im literally running Linux From Scratch im at the mercy of maintainers to do whatever they want.
II2II 1 day ago|||
I'm not sure what the current state of most distributions is, but I remember update applications providing an option to accept or reject individual packages. Even without that, you could preview the list of pending updates and delay them indefinitely, do manual updates of individual packages, or configure it to ignore particular packages during updates. Historically, I believe that you could block certain updates on Windows as well - or maybe you could just rollback and update. Of course none of this is considered user friendly so things may have changed.
undersuit 1 day ago||||
Provide a way to show that your compiled code is what you say it is.

https://wiki.debian.org/ReproducibleBuilds

MarsIronPI 1 day ago||
But where does the original compiler come from? Reproducible builds are only as good as the compiler used to compile them. That's the point of Trusting Trust. If you build with a backdoored compiler and I reproduce your build with the same backdoored compiler, that solves nothing. This is why full-source bootstrap is important[0].

[0]: https://guix.gnu.org/en/blog/2023/the-full-source-bootstrap-...

Dylan16807 1 day ago||
It would be very very hard to actually accomplish something like that on mainstream x86/arm compilers. And hide it from every debugger in the world. If it diminishes the value of reproducible builds, it's by something like 1%.

> Reproducible builds are only as good as the compiler used to compile them.

Which is so so so much better than "as good as nothing".

Certhas 1 day ago||||
Is that true? Can Ubuntu download and install and run new code without me doing anything? I am not sure that's the case.

Of course every time I run an update, they can install whatever. But that's different from what Windows is doing as I understand it...

AndrewDucker 1 day ago||
"Ubuntu will apply security updates automatically, without user interaction. This is done via the unattended-upgrades package, which is installed by default."

https://documentation.ubuntu.com/server/how-to/software/auto...

aruggirello 1 day ago||
Right, but it's a minor annoyance, get rid of it with:

    sudo apt-get remove --purge unattended-upgrades
(doesn't trigger removal of anything else, and you'll enjoy 420kb of additional disk space).

OTOH the real issue with Ubuntu is snap(d). Snap packages definitely do auto-update. You may want to uninstall the whole snap system - it's (still?) perfectly possible, if a little bit convoluted, due to some infamous snaps like firefox, thunderbird, chromium, or eg. certbot on servers

Or just use Debian or any snap-free fork for the matter.

Edit: fixed

CamperBob2 1 day ago||||
I mean.. how is this different from any OS distribution?

The other OS distributions let you turn it off.

jmclnx 1 day ago||||
There are a lot more distros than RH, Ubuntu, Gentoo and LFS. And none of them will show you ads except maybe Ubuntu. Plus you can also look at *BSD.

None of them comes close to what Microsoft is doing. To me, your comment looks like you do not understand the Linux eco-system. Plus IIRC, LFS can now come with compiled binaries.

ErroneousBosh 1 day ago|||
> Apple can push whatever. So can Red Hat or Ubuntu or Gentoo

In the case of Ubuntu and Debian, and to a lesser extent RedHat, I trust the developers not to do that because they have a history of not "just pushing whatever".

Also in many cases I actually know these developers, and I can go round and ask them / remonstrate with them / put a brick through their window / other response if required about it.

asdefghyk 1 day ago|||
Probably influenced by the Microsoft history of sneaky things over last 45 years
underlipton 1 day ago||
What are you talking about? It's my machine. I authorized the running of certain kinds of software from Microsoft. It's not supposed to be a running authorization for them to reach in and do whatever they want on it.
gmponyo 1 day ago||
Do yourself a favor and start using Linux on both machines.
CommenterPerson 1 day ago||
I ordered a basic Windows laptop, it comes with Windows 11. It's going to be my Linux starter computer. I'm not a computer person. Wish me luck!
ewoodrich 1 day ago||
If you decide to dual boot:

https://github.com/Raphire/Win11Debloat

I run this as the first step on any new Win 11 machine, the recommended defaults remove nearly all annoyances I care about. It's a popular tool that's been around for years with a lot of users so isn't some random repo, and it's just Powershell so pretty easy to understand what it's doing if you want to audit the code yourself.

After running it once, I've seen nothing that I would consider an "ad" on Windows 11, and search looks only at the filesystem without any web/store trash. Somewhat ironically, it makes for a cleaner experience than MacOS where I regularly get spammed by Apple trying to cross-sell me something (iCloud, Apple TV, Apple Music, etc).

(FWIW, I have also never needed to re-run after an update or anything, based on 6+ full Win11 installs across three different devices.)

codepoet80 1 day ago||
I hope you researched Linux driver support for that model first. I share the dissatisfaction with the direction of Windows -- but their driver library is unparalleled. Linux CAN run great on lots of machines, but it has nowhere near the hardware support.
prmoustache 1 day ago|||
> but it has nowhere near the hardware support.

My usb scanner would like to have a word with you. Its last supported driver was for windows 2000 and it still works well on Linux.

Hardware support vary between the 2 operating system and new stuff may be supported earlier on windows but I can't say that windows driver library is unparalleled, quite the opposite actually.

Telaneo 1 day ago||||
There are only really two big bloches when it comes to drivers these days: Wifi and Nvidia. And even Nvidia at-least works if you've got a modern card, so you won't be stuck with no output, you'll just get worse performance. Wi-fi you really should double-check though if you need that.

Some niche accessories also have issues, or at least niche features on those accessories.

frm88 1 day ago||||
That may well be the case except for my Kyocera printer. I never managed to get the device to stay online for more than 5 minutes on Windows 10. Wanting to print a letter was actually a hassle taking ~15 minutes. When I plugged it into my Nobara(Fedora) PC it just worked - I didn't even have to specify a driver or anything. It can now even print barcodes. It couldn't with Windows 10, no matter what driver I tried. Also: KB505518 from April 2025 disabled all my USB ports - there was never a fix.
notKilgoreTrout 1 day ago|||
I've not really seen that much of a problem with Linux drivers being available recently while the quality problem of windows drivers being unreviewed code seems like its partly addressed for central monopolies but still in the peripherals if you'll pardon the pun.
drnick1 1 day ago||
The Penguin is calling.
Neil44 1 day ago||
Not being battered by upsells nobody asked for every time you turn the laptop on is so refreshing.
maniacwhat 1 day ago|||
This reminds me of the situation with online ads.

Most people with ad blockers don't realize how unusable the web is for those that don't have ad blockers. I think most would agree this is a poor state that industry incentives have landed us in, and with the web being distributed, it's hard to know how to fix.

Similarly those who use Linux probably don't realize how bad Windows has got recently.

Microsoft has managed to replicate this awful ux problem on a system that they entirely control...

the_snooze 1 day ago||||
When your computer does what you tell it and it doesn't actively try to undermine your intentions, computing becomes fun again.
edg5000 1 day ago|||
Yes. It's a slow boiling frog thing. Kinda like a bad relation ship. You get used to the toxicity. But when you get out of it, it's soooo refreshing. Thank you everybody who made Linux on the desktop possible.
underlipton 1 day ago|||
The SEO/Stochastic Parrot Tag Team has entered the chat
userbinator 1 day ago||||
Windows used to be like that too, when MS was more focused on being hostile to the competition than its own customers.
cogman10 1 day ago||||
My 5 year old laptop runs a lot faster as well.

Linux was designed to run on potatoes and has very little bloat over the years. The UX isn't terribly worse on fairly old hardware.

MarsIronPI 1 day ago|||
> Linux was designed to run on potatoes and has very little bloat over the years. I think it's more that it was designed in the 80s-90s for hardware at the time, and hasn't added bloat or "requirements" since then. So as computers have gotten more capable Linux takes less of the overall capacity.
smallstepforman 1 day ago||||
Quote: very little bloat over the years

You should try Haiku, and read about its package virtual file system, Linux in comparison will forever after that look like a bloated hog.

immibis 1 day ago||||
Linux has plenty of bloat. But it's your bloat. You get the power to slice through it how you want and nobody will stop you.
cogman10 1 day ago||
Well, I'd say it's almost the reverse of how it is with windows.

In windows, the bloat is built in by default. You don't get to chose how the start menu works, you get the windows default start menu and you better like the ads in it. It takes work to pull that garbage out.

In linux most stuff is opt in.

The other part of linux is most stuff isn't simply there running in the background by default. Firefox eats a decent amount of memory, but it's not doing that when I don't have my browser open.

immibis 19 hours ago||
Any Linux distribution comes with a lot of bloat, which is why it requires 30GB or so, rather than 30MB or so. Even the kernel is much bigger than it once was.

Nobody is yelling at you not to remove it, or trying to prevent you from removing it, or obscuring where it is and cross-linking everything to make it harder to remove, but it's still there and requires substantial work to remove, just like in Windows.

charcircuit 1 day ago|||
[flagged]
LtWorf 1 day ago||
It is true. It was written to run on 386 when all the other unix os required way more expensive machines that nobody could afford.
charcircuit 1 day ago||
And Windows was written for the 8086. By that logic, Windows was designed for even weaker potatoes.
LtWorf 1 day ago||
Except linux still runs on 486 but windows requires a 5 year old machine?
charcircuit 23 hours ago||
486 support was dropped over a decade ago back in 2013 in Linux 3.8.
LtWorf 9 hours ago||
Are you seriously saying that linux and windows have the same minimal requirements?
MarsIronPI 1 day ago|||
Instead, you get battered by proselytes every time you go online! :D
mystraline 1 day ago|||
Exactly.

Upgrade, to Linux.

claysmithr 1 day ago|||
2026 year of the linux desktop
Too 1 day ago|||
To be honest Linux desktop has been ready for the past 4-5 years or so. Long gone are the days where Bluetooth suddenly stopped, external monitors crashing and when closing the lid only put the laptop to sleep every fifth time. Heck, even Wayland, wireless printers and usb-c docking stations work these days, even with nvidia. You might even find some games.

It’s become a boring appliance that just works every time. Just they way I want it. I even forgot how to use grub.

burky 1 day ago||
Especially having ChatGPT, Claude, or Gemini available nowadays. It’s a godsend when troubleshooting any Linux issues, and you can learn so much in the process.

I just upgraded my PC’s motherboard, CPU, memory, and video card and used Claude as a build buddy to help me lay out steps to follow. I also used it after installing CachyOS for the second time, but on this new hardware. It had me double checking to make sure I had all the proper drivers set up by running commands, but everything was already setup correctly by CachyOS. It even helped me figure out that I had a fan wire half plugged in, which was causing a fan not to throttle. I would alternate between Claude Sonnet 4.5 and ChatGPT 5.2. But it’s so much easier and quicker than the old days of sifting through the manuals and forums, if you could get online to a forum that is.

herdymerzbow 1 day ago|||
chatpgt has sent me wrong instructions on just as many occasions it has given the right instructions on how to fix things on linux. It's frustrating when it sends me a 'fix' on something that doesn't even need it (steps on installing a particular flavour of Proton to bypass Rockstar's launcher, when it was already done by default). And because I'm not terribly adept I only appreciate it's the wrong instructions after implementing it and it not working.
LtWorf 1 day ago|||
If you want error prone scripts and out of date instructions, LLMs are very useful.
baal80spam 1 day ago|||
Any year now!
summa_tech 1 day ago|||
I don't know... Two people around me recently switched to Linux because they could not stand how bad Windows 11 got. I did not encourage either of them (I've got my share of frustrations after running a Linux desktop exclusively for 25 years, and will not consent to be the object of their ire when they inevitably get frustrated - I'd rather help them on neutral ground instead).
brokencode 1 day ago||||
I ran Linux on my laptop in college over a decade ago and it worked great.

It just depends on application compatibility and to a smaller extent driver support, though that shouldn’t be a problem for an older laptop.

WXLCKNO 1 day ago||||
I've always dual booted windows with some Linux and used it like 90/10.

I haven't even tried windows 11 even though my PC is compatible.

Went full Linux and I'm not sure what I was missing at this point that I needed from Windows.

Ran Pop OS (cosmic) which is the new Wayland based one but unfortunately it's still buggy and then I switched to a gaming focused Linux called Bazzite which has been perfect.

Tiny learning curve because it's an "immutable" OS but have everything I need running on it plus everything gaming related works out of the box.

brokencode 1 day ago||
I’m really hoping Steam Deck keeps on pushing game makers to support Linux. It’s really gotten a lot better, except for competitive games that need most types of anti-cheat.

If Linux supported all the games I wanted to play, I would ditch Windows on my home PC.

bigyabai 1 day ago|||
It was 2019 for me. I haven't daily-driven a Windows or Mac machine in almost 5 years now.
Animats 1 day ago||
Me either.

But Firefox on Ubuntu is not very good. It can expand to fill the whole machine and get killed by the OOM killer. Sometimes during long text input it hangs and has to be killed and restarted. 8 GB isn't enough any more.

bigyabai 1 day ago||
Yep, I use a tab suspender to keep Firefox in check, and use zram/swap on my laptop. Works like a charm for me.
twilo 1 day ago|||
Why bother with Linux when there is MacOS? You get decent hardware to go with it too
chocochunks 1 day ago|||
Actual control over my computer? Apple might have less ads, but they really go out of their way to make you feel uncomfortable doing anything they deem not the happy path. And they're still plenty willing to push subscriptions and their software.
MarsIronPI 1 day ago||||
Because some of us would rather not have to buy new hardware just because Apple says no more updates for your machine.
canyp 1 day ago||||
Because MacOS is just as insidious? Recent versions will bring up the iCloud pop-up on every boot. Won't go away until you comply.

Both Mac and Windows are for suckers.

timbit42 1 day ago||||
You're only delaying the inevitable.
markus_zhang 1 day ago|||
IMO Mac eco is good hardware plus meh software. Some built ins are really in bad shape — but I guess people have different opinions, although I think calling Finder a beta version is an insult to “beta”.
jesprenj 1 day ago||
I sure like seeing

    Expanded Security Maintenance for Applications is not enabled.
    
    0 updates can be applied immediately.
    
    108 additional security updates can be applied with ESM Apps.
    Learn more about enabling ESM Apps service at https://ubuntu.com/esm
every time I log in. Or

> You do not have a valid subscription for this server. Please visit www.proxmox.com to get a list of available options.

every time I log in.

bramhaag 1 day ago|||
Believe it or not, Ubuntu is not the only Linux distribution.
timbit42 1 day ago||||
Ubuntu broke new ground when it came out but around the time they switched to the Gnome desktop, they stopped focusing on a great desktop experience and it was surpassed by other, better distributions. I'd recommend trying Linux Mint instead as it has all the greatness of Linux without the crap from Canonical (eg. SNAPs).

I haven't recommended Ubuntu to anyone for years but there are still people recommending it because it was great years ago and they don't seem to know it's now lagging other distributions.

Too 1 day ago||||
That’s if you run a OS version older than 5 years. You can still update to a newer Ubuntu version for free and get another 5 years if you pick an LTS version.
CamperBob2 1 day ago|||
So disable it?
throwaway613745 1 day ago||
Ultimately, I didn't switch to Linux because I wanted to. I switched to Linux because Microsoft became so actively hostile to me I felt like I didn't have any other choice.

No Microsoft, I'm not buying new hardware just to get the new OS. No, I'm not going to let you nag me every single day until I get pissed off enough to. No, I will not tolerate all the little things in your OS that piss me off everyday. Your software sucks. Your filesystem sucks. Your constant nagging sucks. I don't want your cloud TPM security bullshit and I DEFINITELY don't want Copilot or Recall.

Seriously Microsoft: fuck you.

Giving up being able to play certain games - which require me to install malware into my computer anyway - is a small price to pay to have my sanity and freedom back. I own my computer, not you. Goodbye and good riddance.

I already used MacOS and Linux for work anyway. But don't worry Apple, you're riding that line pretty dangerously too - you're gonna be next on the chopping block if you don't get your act together. Framework Desktop is looking like a mighty capable replacement for my Mac Studio.

edg5000 1 day ago|
Very relatable. It was so scary when I jumped ship in 2021. It was simply no longer acceptable to stay on such a hostile platform. I was willing to accept a huge downgrade in terms of usability and functionality. It turned out to actually be a lot more pleasant to use. Better software, more software, better performance. Just better all around.
damion6 1 day ago||
Use Rufus it'll disable hardware requirements, without hassle. You will need an iso. If you know someone with 11 have them download it. Otherwise download the generic.
gchamonlive 1 day ago||
It also lets you skip the first time install dialogue by setting defaults and add a local-only account. Rufus is the way to go about installing windows.
adastra22 1 day ago|||
Had to scroll way too far down through windows gripes to find this, the real answer. Windows 11 will run just fine on your machine, OP. Just use Rufus and a USB stick to do the upgrade.
dgoldstein0 1 day ago|||
totally agree, but it is a bit ridiculous that this workaround is required.
adastra22 1 day ago||
Agreed.
TiredOfLife 1 day ago|||
But it will break on updates. Windows 11 IoT Enterprise LTSC doesn't have those requirements
adastra22 1 day ago||
No, it doesn’t? Been running it for years, with updates, and never an issue.
vorpalhex 1 day ago||
...but then you have to use Windows 11...
gchamonlive 1 day ago||
Or a Windows 10 installation that won't get security updates. I don't know which is worse.
makeitdouble 1 day ago||
Windows 10 can still get updates, for I don't remember how many years.

It's a PITA it's not made more obvious, but there are free options, paid options (30$ a year if I remember well), all straight from Microsoft fully supported. Sailing the seven seas for a LTS if the other way.

gchamonlive 1 day ago||
Indeed https://endoflife.date/windows
coopykins 7 hours ago||
The only reason I keep my home PC with windows still is that I use it mainly to play games and some have anti-cheat systems that are not compatible with Linux. But I play those games less and less the older I get, I play mostly older games / emulators. I see it very likely that I won't install whatever comes after Windows 11 and at that point I might move over to Linux for good.
hoherd 23 hours ago||
A few days ago I started up an old Windows 10 laptop that I haven't used in a few years so my son could play a game that I haven't taken the time to set up in proton on linux. I was amazed at how much the Windows OS experience seems like an unhealthy relationship where the OS is trying to manipulate you and control you. It feels like it's not even my computer, it's a Microsoft owned kiosk that I'm allowed to partially use.

Another really remarkable thing is how cloud connected it is. For instance, the lock screen had online feeds shown. The setting to disable them is on a remote website, not in the screensaver prefs or some other local system pref. That was astonishing, and IMHO absurd. If it hadn't been clear to me before, that made it crystal clear that what MS wants the OS to be and what I want the OS of my personal computer to be are not remotely the same thing.

wkat4242 7 hours ago||
Just grab LTSC, it gets security updates till 2032. It's great! Also less bloat.
manmal 1 day ago|
Our kids‘ school received some old surface laptops for free through some initiative. I‘ve been tasked to take care of them. And of course, WiFi mysteriously stopped working for all of them, after ca 1 week of use.

It turns out that a recent Win11 update bricked the network adapter. After some digging, it is this problem: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/answers/questions/4378104/...

I‘ve tried:

- Uninstalling the update and disabling updates for 5 weeks. But Windows just decided to reinstall the update after 2 days. Bricked again.

- Disabling fast start. This reactivated itself the next day.

- What finally worked, was disabling hibernation entirely.

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