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Posted by geox 16 hours ago

As AI gobbles up chips, prices for devices may rise(www.npr.org)
208 points | 312 commentspage 4
netbioserror 16 hours ago|
Positive downstream effect: The way software is built will need to be rethought and improved to utilize efficiencies for stagnating hardware compute. Think of how staggering the step from the start of a console generation to the end used to be. Native-compiled languages have made bounding leaps that might be worth pursuing again.
yooogurt 15 hours ago||
Alternatively, we'll see a drop in deployment diversity, with more and more functionality shifted to centralised providers that have economies of scale and the resources to optimise.

E.g. IDEs could continue to demand lots of CPU/RAM, and cloud providers are able to deliver that cheaper than a mostly idle desktop.

If that happens, more and more of its functionality will come to rely on having low datacenter latencies, making use on desktops less viable.

Who will realistically be optimising build times for usecases that don't have sub-ms access to build caches, and when those build caches are available, what will stop the median program from having even larger dependency graphs.

linguae 13 hours ago||
I’d feel better about the RAM price spikes if they were caused by a natural disaster and not by Sam Altman buying up 40% of the raw wafer supply, other Big Tech companies buying up RAM, and the RAM oligopoly situation restricting supply.

This will only serve to increase the power of big players who can afford higher component prices (and who, thanks to their oligopoly status, can effectively set the market price for everyone else), while individuals and smaller institutions are forced to either spend more or work with less computing resources.

The optimistic take is that this will force software vendors into shipping more efficient software, but I also agree with this pessimistic take, that companies that can afford inflated prices will take advantage of the situation to pull ahead of competitors who can’t afford tech at inflated prices.

I don’t know what we can do as normal people other than making do with the hardware we have and boycotting Big Tech, though I don’t know how effective the latter is.

piskov 15 hours ago|||
Some Soviet humor will help you understand the true course of events:

A dad comes home and tells his kid, “Hey, vodka’s more expensive now.” “So you’re gonna drink less?” “Nope. You’re gonna eat less.”

ip26 11 hours ago||
I have some hope for transpiling to become more commonplace. What would happen if you could write in Python, but trivially transpile to C++ and back?
Culonavirus 6 hours ago||
I mean yea, but this is THE wrong site to post stuff like this. Half the people here are the AI cock and the other half is riding it.
kankerlijer 16 hours ago||
Well thank th FSM that the article opens right up with buy now! No thanks, I'm kind of burnt out on mindless consumerism, I'll go pot some plants or something.
johnea 16 hours ago|
I didn't see any of that.

I highly recommend disabling javascript in your browser.

Yes, it makes many sites "look funny", or maybe you have to scroll past a bunch of screen sized "faceplant" "twitverse" and "instamonetize" icons, but, there are far fewer ads (like none).

And of course some sites won't work at all. That's OK too, I just don't read them. If it's a news article, its almost always available on another site that doesn't require javascript.

piskov 15 hours ago|||
Probably using reader mode by default would be less guttural experience (and you’ll have an easy fallback).
intrasight 2 hours ago||
Used to work. No longer. What does work is archive.today. But even that is at risk. Some sites now presented encoded text when you view the archive.
zahlman 13 hours ago||||
I would not be able to handle that due to video streaming, web clients for things like email, etc. And some sites I trust (including HN) provide useful functionality with JS (while degrading gracefully).

But I use NoScript and it is definitely a big help.

metadope 15 hours ago|||
I whole-heartedly agree with your recommendation and join in encouraging more adopters of this philosophy and practice.

Life online without javascript is just better. I've noticed an increase in sites that are useful (readable) with javascript disabled. Better than 10 years ago, when broken sites were rampant. Though there are still the lazy ones that are just blank pages without their javascript crutch.

Maybe the hardware/resource austerity that seems to be upon us now will result in people and projects refactoring, losing some glitter and glam, getting lean. We can resolve to slim down, drop a few megs of bloat, use less ram and bandwidth. It's not a problem; it's an opportunity!

In any case, Happy New Year! [alpha preview release]

shmerl 14 hours ago||
> She said the next new factory expected to come online is being built by Micron in Idaho. The company says it will be operational in 2027

Isn't Micron stopping all consumer RAM production? So their factories won't help anyway.

terribleperson 14 hours ago|
Micron is exiting direct to consumer sales. That doesn't mean their chips couldn't end up in sticks or devices sold to consumers, just that the no-middleman Crucial brand is dead.

Also, even if no Micron RAM ever ended up in consumer hands, it would still reduce prices for consumers by increasing the supply to other segments of the market.

walterbell 7 hours ago||
> no-middleman Crucial brand is dead

It could be restarted in the future by Micron.

Crucial SSDs offer good firmware (e.g. nvme sanitize for secure erase) and hardware (e.g. power loss capacitors).

vittore 16 hours ago||
I've been ruminating on this past two years, with life before AI most of the compute staying cheap and pretty much 90% idle , we are finally getting to the point of using all of this compute. We probably will find more algorithms to improve efficiency of all the matrix computations, and with AI bubble same thing will happen that happened with telecom bubble and all the fiber optic stuff that turned out to be drastically over provisioned. Fascinating times!
shevy-java 15 hours ago||
I don't think any of this is "fascinating" - it is more of a racket scheme. They push the prices up. Governments failed the people here.
yooogurt 14 hours ago||
Isn't this more easily explained by supply-demand? Supply can't quickly scale, and so with increased demand there will be increased prices.
ozgrakkurt 9 hours ago||
Imagine someone goes to the supermarket and buys all the tomatoes. Then supermarket owner says I don’t know, he bought all at once so it is a better sale. And he sells the remaining 10% of tomatoes at a huge markup
vittore 9 hours ago||
I think it is better compared to Dutch folks buying all the tulip bulbs. And the price skyrocketed.
Ekaros 6 hours ago||
Tulips were by my understanding more so NFTs. Rich people gambling when bored. With promises for tulips in future... Future contracts for tulips. And prices were high because they were insanely rich merchants.

The RAM looks like cornering market. Probably something OpenAI should be prosecuted for if they end up profiting from it.

squibonpig 11 hours ago||
Except it's still sitting idle in warehouses while datacenters get built. They aren't running yet. Unlike with fiber, GPUs degrade rapidly with use, and for now datacenters need to be practically rebuilt to fit new generations, so we shouldn't expect much reusable hardware to come from this
CTDOCodebases 5 hours ago||
"May"
shevy-java 15 hours ago||
I now consider this a mafia that aims to milk us for more money. This includes all AI companies but also manufacturers who happily benefit from this. It is a de-facto monopoly. Governments need to stop allowing this milking scheme to happen.
DamnInteresting 14 hours ago||
When it's more than one company working together in a monopoly-like fashion, the term is "oligopoly".

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/oligopoly

vee-kay 13 hours ago||
There is another word for it: cartel.

e.g., the Phoebus cartel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebus_cartel

throwaway94275 14 hours ago|||
"Monopoly" means one seller, so you can't say multiple X makes a monopoly and make sense. You probably mean collusion.

If demand exceeds supply, either prices rise or supply falls, causing shortages. Directly controlling sellers (prices) or buyers (rationing) results in black markets unless enforcement has enough strength and integrity. The required strength and integrity seems to scale exponentially with the value of the good, so it's typically effectively impossible to prevent out-of-spec behavior for anything not cheap.

If everyone wants chips, semiconductor manufacturing supply should be increased. Governments should subsidize domestic semiconductor industries and the conditions for them to thrive (education, etc.) to meet both goals of domestic and economic security, and do it in a way that works.

The alternative is decreasing demand. Governments could hold bounty and incentive programs for building electronics that last a long time or are repairable or recyclable, but it's entirely possible the market will eventually do that.

rileymat2 11 hours ago|||
> If everyone wants chips, semiconductor manufacturing supply should be increased. Governments should subsidize domestic semiconductor industries and the conditions for them to thrive (education, etc.) to meet both goals of domestic and economic security, and do it in a way that works.

If there is already demand at this inflated price, shouldn’t we ask why more capacity is not coming online naturally first?

yupyupyups 14 hours ago|||
Why would government officials and politicians want to stop making money?
yowlingcat 14 hours ago|||
Technically it's a lot closer to monopsony (Sam Altman/OAI cornering 40% of the market on DRAM in a clever way for his interests that harms the rest of the world that would want to use it). I keep hoping that somehow necessity will spur China to become the mother of invention here and supply product to serve the now lopsided constrained supply given increasing demand but I just don't know how practical it will be.
klooney 10 hours ago|||
I mean, if you were the Micron CEO, would you bet the company on demand sustaining from AI? It seems like it could all go belly up very fast.
ekianjo 13 hours ago||
There is no monopoly in AI. I can name at least 10 big actors worldwide.
ggm 10 hours ago||
If they collude on pricing and restrict new entrants, that's what the Sherman anti trust laws are about.
bdangubic 10 hours ago||
the fines that would be levied via potential sherman law violations would negligible so that is for sure not a deterrent
ggm 7 hours ago||
It would be understood that any action under the sherman act is unlikely and as you say, the financial penalties are tokenistic.

The non financial parts, which include mandated restructuring and penalties to directors including incarceration however, are not tokenistic. They'd be appealed and delayed, but at some point the shareholders would seek redress from the board. Ignoring judicial mandated instructions isn't really a good idea, current WH behaviour aside. If the defence here is "courts don't matter any more" that's very unhelpful, if true. At some point, a country which cannot enforce judicial outcomes has stopped being civil society.

My personal hope the EU tears holes in the FAANG aside, the collusive pricing of chips has been a problem for some time. The cost/price disjunction here is strong.

29athrowaway 14 hours ago||
AI needs data and data that comes from consumer devices.
cglan 13 hours ago||
At this current pace, if "the electorate" doesn't see real benefits to any of this. 2028 is going to be referendum on AI unfortunately.

Whether you like it or not, AI right now is mostly

- high electricity prices - crazy computer part prices - phasing out of a lot of formerly high paying jobs

and the benefits are mostly - slop and chatgpt

Unless OpenAI and co produce the machine god, which genuinely is possible. If most people's interactions with AI are the negative externalities they'll quickly be wondering if ChatGPT is worth this cost.

caconym_ 10 hours ago||
> they'll quickly be wondering if ChatGPT is worth this cost

They should be, and the answer is obviously no—at least to them. No political or business leader has outlined a concrete, plausible path to the sort of vague UBI utopia that's been promised for "regular folks" in the bullish scenario (AGI, ASI, etc.), nor have they convincingly argued that this isn't an insane bubble that's going to cripple our economy when AGI doesn't happen—a scenario that's looking more and more likely every day.

There is no upside and only downside; whether we're heading for sci-fi apocalypse or economic catastrophe, the malignant lunatics pushing this technology expect to be insulated from consequences whether they end up owning the future light-cone of humanity or simply enjoying the cushion of their vast wealth while the majority suffers the consequences of an economic crash a few rich men caused by betting it all, even what wasn't theirs to bet.

Everybody should be fighting this tooth and nail. Even if these technologies are useful (I believe they are), and even if they can be made into profitable products and sustainable businesses, what's happening now isn't related to any of that.

zaptheimpaler 13 hours ago|||
I hope they do. We live in a time of incredibly centralized wealth & power and AI and particularly "the machine god" has the potential to make things 100x worse and return us to a feudal system if the ownership and profits all go to a few capital owners.
trinsic2 8 hours ago||
IMHO this is exactly what is happening. Everyone should be on the phone with there senators putting pressure to enforce anti-trust and deal with citizens united
OGEnthusiast 10 hours ago|||
> At this current pace, if "the electorate" doesn't see real benefits to any of this. 2028 is going to be referendum on AI unfortunately.

Not saying this is necessarily a bad prediction for 2028, but I'm old enough to remember when the 2020 election was going to be a referendum on billionaires and big tech monopolies.

stefan_ 13 hours ago||
For good measure, a bunch of this is funded through money taken directly from the electorates taxes and given to a few select companies, whose leaders then graciously donate to the latest Ballroom grift. Micron, so greedy they thought nothing of shutting down their consumer brand even when it costs them nothing at all, got $6B in Chips Act money in 2024.
arnaudsm 6 hours ago|
[deleted]
fartfeatures 5 hours ago|
This take is pure Luddite nonsense. AI "lowering labor value while boosting capital" ignores centuries of automation: productivity gains cut costs, expand markets, create new jobs, and raise real wages despite short-term disruption.

Steam engines, electricity, computers displaced workers but spawned far more opportunities through new industries and cheaper goods. Same pattern now.

The "jobless masses stuck with 1GB phones eating slop" fantasy is backwards. Compute keeps getting vastly cheaper and more capable; AI speeds that up.

"Terrible for indie creators and startups"? The opposite: AI obliterates barriers to building, shipping, and competing. Solo founders are moving faster than ever.

It's the same tired doomer script we get with every tech wave. It ages poorly.

Inityx 3 hours ago|||
> Compute keeps getting vastly cheaper and more capable; AI speeds that up.

???

sidibe 3 hours ago|||
None of the previous tech had the potential to do every economically productive thing we can do. It will spawn more opportunities, but maybe it will also fill those opportunities.
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