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Posted by kevlened 2 days ago

Creators of Tailwind laid off 75% of their engineering team(github.com)
1426 points | 818 commentspage 3
legitster 2 days ago|
It's insane how much AIs use Tailwind and yet the companies aren't contributing anything. It would be trivial for Anthropic or Cursor to pay something.

Would it work to have a new free-use license that explicitly excludes LLMs? Make them pay royalties - you'd have to use something like public license keys. But if Spotify pays a trivial license payment for every stream - Claude could contribute something when it recommends a project.

massimoto 2 days ago||
For what it's worth, Cursor does support Tailwind, see their sponsors page. But certainly agree.

https://tailwindcss.com/sponsor

munificent 2 days ago|||
> It would be trivial for Anthropic or Cursor to pay something.

You don't get rich by paying people what they deserve.

chuckadams 2 days ago|||
How would you possibly enforce this? I can disconnect my laptop from the internet and the local LLM will still autocomplete TW classes. Does JetBrains therefore owe TW every time it does this? What if it was actually completing UnoCSS class names that happen to overlap? How about when it's just simple autocomplete based on what classes are visible and what I've used within the same file?

These might sound like snide rhetorical questions, but when you start demanding payment, they're very real.

legitster 2 days ago||
> How would you possibly enforce this?

The legal system.

If you see a bunch of Tailwind markup on websites without a license key, you can enforce your license. The LLMs can write the code for you, but they either have to negotiate their own license or instruct users to get their own.

The comparable I am familiar with is Font Awesome. Even if you want a free plan, you still have to create an account and get a key.

satvikpendem 2 days ago|||
Then pretty soon people will stop using Tailwind and use another OSS atomic CSS library instead, like UnoCSS. You can't stop the hydra.
chuckadams 2 days ago||||
Sounds like full employment for IP lawyers. Not a world I'd prefer.
quaintdev 2 days ago|||
If they tailwind, it sets a precedent for others. They can't pay everyone.
dafelst 2 days ago||
So you're saying that just because they can't pay everyone, they should pay no one?
quaintdev 1 day ago||
Yeah I know how that sounds but it's the most logical explanation.
philipwhiuk 1 day ago||
Alternatively, they don't have a viable business model?

This isn't rocket science. If your business can't exist within the law, it doesn't get to exist.

wiseowise 1 day ago|||
There’s no law that says you have to pay businesses because you make customers life easier.

If ChatGPT answers a law question for you that you’d have to ask an expensive lawyer, are they supposed to pay the lawyer too?

taormina 1 day ago|||
Tell Uber you said hi.
prmoustache 1 day ago||
> It's insane how much AIs use Tailwind and yet the companies aren't contributing anything. It would be trivial for Anthropic or Cursor to pay something.

Paying someone fairly for its contribution to society? This won't pass here in the free world as it sounds like a dangerous communist idea. How are we supposed to become richer than our neighbor that way?

solarkraft 2 days ago||
It’s crazy to me that it was ever a business to begin with.

Cool, in a way! But this feels like just going back to normal.

mpeg 2 days ago||
Apparently they were 8+ people, in 2024 team size was 6 and were hiring 2 more [0] and in 2020 they had $2m+ ARR [1].

Honestly, while I feel bad for the people who lost their jobs the news aren't exactly surprising. Overhiring is a game for VC funded OSS like bun, not usually a good idea for bootstrapped companies.

[0]: https://tailwindcss.com/blog/hiring-a-design-engineer-and-st...

[1]: https://adamwathan.me/tailwindcss-from-side-project-byproduc...

bradly 2 days ago|||
> 2020 they had $2m+ ARR

You've got an extra "R" in there. In 2020 their only revenue from was non-recurring lifetime software purchases. Like SaaS if you had a 100% churn rate.

mpeg 1 day ago||
Very good point, and I imagine part of the issue here... everything they sell is one-time payment, more of a reason they should have been preparing for the music to stop
ZephyrBlu 2 days ago||||
On his morning walk/podcast thing about the topic he said 75% of the team = 3 developers
satvikpendem 2 days ago||
I wonder if that includes him or not as the remaining 25% as 1 member.
ZephyrBlu 2 days ago||
No it was the 3 co-founders, a part-time person and 4 engineers. Now they are 3 engineers down.
mpeg 1 day ago||
But surely the co-founders pay themselves too. I don't understand the logic in not counting them as part of the company.
TaylorOtwell1 2 days ago|||
Tailwind had several times more than 2M / ARR at their peak.
mpeg 1 day ago||
I believe you, I'm just going out of the figures they have published. If they had "several times more" annual revenue, then not having a warchest for situations like this is puzzling.
sp4cec0wb0y 2 days ago||
A lot of open source projects attempt to become a business in some form or another (or vice versa). Great examples of this include Astral (creators of UV and Ruff), TursoDB, TigerBeetle, etc etc etc. People want to get paid for the project they work on. Some of their business models will fail. This is probably a case of tailwind growing their engineering team faster than they should have when the AI writing was on the wall in 2023.
mpeg 2 days ago||
I think a problem is that tailwind has no moat compared to most of those. If it never received any further updates today it would still be effectively feature-complete, save for the occasional new css features.
freedomben 2 days ago||
I don't disagree, but I think differentiating between Tailwind CSS (which is free) and Tailwind UI. Tailwind UI (Tailwind Plus) is a different story I think. It's extremely useful in its current form, but could benefit from more
mpeg 1 day ago||
Yeah, I was referring more to the fact that tailwind didn't have that many other ways to monetise compared to other OSS projects. Their paid templates and courses kinda fulfilled their goal in that way, they made the founders wealthy, but is there a sustainable business there?
ctippett 2 days ago||
You can really feel the stress in Adam's comments. It must play absolute hell with your mental health, it's anxiogenic from the sidelines just thinking about it. Stay healthy and safe mate.
ides_dev 1 day ago||
Adam goes into depth on this in an episode of his podcast: https://adams-morning-walk.transistor.fm/episodes/we-had-six...
jgoodhcg 1 day ago|
I didn’t know he started a new podcast!
motbus3 2 days ago||
This GitHub conversation is disgraceful. Lots of complaints and no support to the devs.

The company I work for is going through the same. It is not a product for dev though. We ceased support for many countries now because people see no reason for paying, but after it was gone they said they would pay. If you wait too much for supporting good folks those projects will be gone and only greedy corps will exist

katdork 2 days ago||
although I've mentioned this in a subcomment, I want to highlight that the PR itself also seems to be an excuse to get the library he made to be used by TailwindCSS (https://github.com/quantizor/markdown-to-jsx)
b34r 2 days ago|
Nope. Started with regex but it was brittle so I used my library which parses to AST which is easier to work with. It's a docs site, so I'm getting one more download woohoo.
mattgreenrocks 2 days ago||
Something’s wrong when a key piece of foundational web tech is staring down unsustainability. Tailwind is almost ubiquitous these days. It needs to continue to exist.

Small businesses being eaten by AI is a net negative, because they’re in a unique position whereby they need to actually have to listen to customers vs just optimizing for a rando middle manger’s promotion in BigTech.

manuelmoreale 2 days ago||
I’m sorry for what’s happening to Tailwind, it clearly sucks, but a library like that is definitely not a key piece of foundational web tech the same way bootstrap and jquery weren’t.
conrs 2 days ago|||
As an engineer, I want to believe this, but really - does it?

Most folks use frameworks because it's easier than learning how to build it all yourself - things are done for you instead. This niche is now getting eroded by AI and low-code substantially.

Couple that with my experience maintaining frontends that are far too complex for their use cases - e.g. do we really need SPA's, state sync, and reusable components for our admin tool that doesn't reuse components?

This leads me to think there's been bloat here for at least a decade. So, while vibe coding will also lead to bloat, it's easier to work with, and arguably higher value than paying for a specific framework.

It's a tragedy in life that things that are useful don't always get valued, instead being used as a stepping stone for progress, but I'm not sure that has a solution.

mattgreenrocks 2 days ago||
Webdev has overvalued DX to the detriment the user experience for the past 10-15 years. A correction has been long overdue.
paxys 2 days ago|||
This "key piece of foundational web tech" was released 5 years ago and gained prominence maybe 2-3 years ago. Let's not exaggerate its impact. We were perfectly fine before Tailwind and will be fine after it.
Hammershaft 1 day ago||
We were not fine before Tailwind, we aren't fine now, and we won't be fine after it until the day we finally recognize that CSS is a terrible foundational standard that deserves to be replaced.
manuelmoreale 1 day ago||
> deserves to be replaced

Replaced by what exactly? Also, when was the last time a foundational piece of tech powering of the web got replaced by something entirely different?

Also who has decided that CSS is a "terrible foundational standard"?

satvikpendem 2 days ago|||
> key piece of foundational web tech is staring down unsustainability

This must be satire. CSS is what's actually foundational; literally, a foundation upon which Tailwind was built.

mattgreenrocks 2 days ago||
It's a key component for many webdevs even if it isn't literally foundational.
wiseowise 2 days ago|||
CSS is foundational.

Tailwind is not.

mikeg8 2 days ago|||
“Foundational” seems a bit overkill here. There is nothing foundational about it – it’s a convenience tool, albeit a very good one.

AI is disruptive technology - like other tech innovations before it, there will be casualties to incumbents. If anything, this just shows how small businesses with need to be more creative when establishing moats and sustainability in this new landscape.

philipwhiuk 1 day ago|||
I've never used Tailwind. I guess it's just an alternative to Bootstrap from the docs?

There's plenty of alternative CSS frameworks.

I can absolutely see why it's difficult to monetize.

threetonesun 2 days ago||
You could go back in time and say this about jQuery. Tailwind's future was always questionable because CSS is growing in new and amazing ways, and wrapping the complexity of new CSS features into helper classes isn't really a sustainable model.

That said if someone wants a business model, figure out a way to get paid to get AI to make UIs using newer CSS features, because right now it's quite terrible at it.

arnvald 2 days ago||
The difference is that jQuery was replaced by other libraries, while Tailwind grows in popularity, but due to AI its creator doesn’t benefit from this popularity as much as before
threetonesun 2 days ago||
jQuery was essentially replaced by JavaScript (and browser compatibility) getting better, but it continued to exist and grow because it was the de facto way to DOM manipulation, especially if you had to copy and paste off of Stack Overflow, or roll out a framework based UI.

Tailwind being the default choice for AI UIs is not that different, it can continue to grow in usage but the fundamental need for Tailwind has passed.

yCombLinks 2 days ago||
The difference is jquery went away because better things replaced it (in javascript). If the fundamental need for tailwind has passed why is it's usage growing? It's more that the problem solved by the paid portion of tailwind is now solved by AI.
geenat 2 days ago||
I recently had a similar junk PR on my 1,700 star repository: https://github.com/gnat/surreal/pull/56

I'm fairly convinced these are bot / LLM generated; the content is nonsensical garbage.

PS: If an LLM needs a whole seperate fork to understand your content, the LLM is failing at it's job.

PS PS: I want to highlight that the PR itself also seems to be an excuse to get the library quantizor made pulled in as a new dependency. Nasty.

aiiizzz 2 days ago||
Sounds shady.
b34r 2 days ago||
[flagged]
dogleash 2 days ago||||
>What a horrible thing to do. So sorry I wasted my own personal time on this. People like you drive others out of open source.

Pot, meet kettle.

lifetimerubyist 2 days ago|||
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b34r 1 day ago||
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lifetimerubyist 1 day ago||
The “community” doesn’t decide what goes into the project, TailwindLabs does. Tailwind is not a community developed project. It’s a project that sometimes accepts outside contributors when they feel like it and the are under no obligation to do so. You did work that nobody from the project asked for and you’re throwing a fit because they have different priorities and said they don’t want it. They don’t owe you anything.

It seems you have fundamental misunderstanding of how open source works and now you’re throwing a fit because you’re an entitled brat.

Take the L. Learn a lesson. Grow and be better.

b34r 1 day ago||
[flagged]
lifetimerubyist 1 day ago||
[flagged]
vips7L 2 days ago||
They have a right to decide what their product is. Just because someone sent a PR doesn't mean they have to consider it whatsoever!
lovlar 1 day ago|
What about exploring new, AI-native ways to monetize?

For example, creators behind libraries like Tailwind could sell Claude skills or MCP server solutions.

If I could pay $20 to make my AI agents significantly better at writing state-of-the-art Tailwind code — while knowing that my purchase directly supports the Tailwind community and its long-term sustainability — I would happily do so.

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