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Posted by kevlened 4 days ago

Creators of Tailwind laid off 75% of their engineering team(github.com)
1450 points | 836 commentspage 7
lilerjee 2 days ago|
It's time to think about seriously "Could we create a license to make AI companies pay for your content?" or "Create a technology to ban AI bots effectively",

please refer to https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45729809

fourside 4 days ago||
How does something like Tailwind lead to a company big enough that you can layoff 75% of the engineering team?
d1sxeyes 4 days ago||
I don’t know how big the “team” was, but 75% suggests maybe 4 engineers, one left. The next number up that works is 8, and 8 full time engineers to work on tailwind seems like a lot.
d1sxeyes 4 days ago||
Listened to the podcast, it was 3 laid off.
eatonphil 4 days ago|||
LinkedIn says the company was 2-10 employees. 75% laid off wouldn't have been a lot of people. Tough for them though.
1123581321 4 days ago||
Three engineers laid off, one remaining.
phonon 4 days ago|||
It was three out of four people.
angryany 4 days ago|||
https://github.com/tailwindlabs/tailwindcss/discussions/1467...

In this comment, he says that he had to lay off 3 people.

Not sure if this means it was him+4engs and now it’s just him+1eng or if he’s including himself and he’s working alone now.

But either way, can’t be fun

kayo_20211030 4 days ago|||
3 of 4. Not a behemoth by any stretch. A bit sad.
whatamidoingyo 4 days ago||
I was wondering the same thing.
nickjj 4 days ago||
I'm happy to see this, not because I wish Adam failure. I am a Tailwind user myself and use it in all of my projects. Generally am a fan of Adam and respect his business.

The happy (in a bad way) part is seeing very successful projects like Tailwind get financially fucked by AI. It means it's not just me.

I am a small tech course creator who was able to make a living for 10 years but over the last 3 years it has tanked to where I make practically zero. Almost all due to less traffic hitting my blog which was the source of paid course purchases. I literally had to shift my entire life around after 25 years of being a successful contractor because of this.

I hope the world understands how impactful (both good and bad ways) having an unchecked AI scrape the world's content and funnel everything directly through their monetized platform while content creators get nothing in return is.

camdenreslink 3 days ago||
Out of curiosity, do you think the decrease in revenue for your tech course business is due to lack of demand (i.e. potential customers just ask an LLM rather than learn from a course now), or due to disruption in your acquisition channel (i.e. reduced traffic from SEO to your blog due to potential customers seeing Google's LLM answers at the top of the search results page)? Like for example, do you have other marketing channels such as social media, youtube or paid ads?
nickjj 3 days ago||
I think it's both but I think the end result is less traffic means less sales.

I don't have paid ads, everything has been organic with the blog being the main funnel into everything. For quite a few years I tried creating a podcast and also have 5+ years of weekly YouTube videos but the traffic back to the courses from those are close to nothing.

Conversion percent rates haven't changed, they have remained consistent.

My figures almost track perfectly with StackOverflow's chart: https://i.sstatic.net/IY0g8JZW.png

camdenreslink 3 days ago||
Thank you for sharing, I really appreciate it! I've been working on my own tech course/education platform for the past couple years, and the landscape seems to be moving beneath our feet!
nickjj 3 days ago||
Indeed, I hope things work out for you.
okokwhatever 4 days ago||
Hey! you just discovered media piracy dude! Congrats!
nickjj 4 days ago||
That's an interesting way to think about it.

I discovered media piracy long ago, but it was very acute before AI because only a small amount of folks pirated this type of content. I ignored them and put 0% energy into it because I wanted to focus on the happy path of people not pirating the content.

If you think of AI as pirating media, it's providing that media to everyone in a context specific form so yes it is a pretty interesting analogy. Not quite a 1 to 1 match but the end outcome is the same and that's all that matters here.

pixelsort 4 days ago||
I never appreciated tailwind until AI models revealed it as such a token-efficient way transport styles between models and other use-cases. AI aruably hurts demand for their premium offering the same way it hurts demand for junior devs.
racl101 4 days ago||
We should have Telethons for all the companies on whose products we build our products but whose livelihood depends on the goodwill of others lest can't keep the lights on OR they get sold to some soulless corp and turned to crap.
gaigalas 3 days ago||
I don't like tailwind. However, I don't wish that to anyone.

Despite any of my preferences, it was real work that deserved a chance. It cannot be denied that AI slurping their content contributed to less paying customers.

IMHO, this is content draught starting to appear. To an extreme, it should lead to no one having any real incentive (possible business, possible recognition, etc) to do new and original stuff.

I don't see a way of changing this. I think jobs will be fine, but content of all kinds (especially code) won't.

runako 3 days ago||
Sincerely hope the Tailwind team can navigate this rough patch.

Frontend output from LLMs is (in my experience) subpar when compared to human-built components. However, I am not primarily a frontend dev. I would definitely pay for something that let me easily build frontends using vetted components, in ways they were designed to work together.

This seems like something that would sit solidly in the bailiwick of framework designers like Tailwind Labs. But it seems they primarily target frontend developers, so their focus is elsewhere.

gkoberger 4 days ago||
I love Tailwind, and I am really sorry Adam and co are going through this. They've built a great product, and it's brought joy back building again for me.

It's really hard to run a company, especially when your product is mostly OSS... Tailwind has helped thousands of companies save (or make) millions of dollars, and AI almost by default uses it to generate beautiful websites. This is such a hard position to be in... to watch your product take off, but your financials plummet. It really sucks how affected the team is after all the good work they've done.

hmokiguess 4 days ago||
I bought their Plus thing a while back and not I can't find myself a reason to use it.

If I was considering that purchase in today's landscape, I would surely not buy it. At $299 USD I can have a decent model do the job of writing custom tailored components for me and iterate extensively on them.

Hard sell with a "UI Kit" versus a "UI Brain".

If I were Adam I would drop to $29.99 and accept the status quo, but not make it lifetime access to try and not piss off existing owners, and I would pivot to building a Frontend AI Agent and a Tailwind Labs Model.

antonymoose 4 days ago|
Im currently considering buying it actually. I’ve landed a decent side-project building out a CRM for a small business that wants to ditch Salesforce. It’s all internal tooling so the customer has no care or need for a highly customized fancy UI and that $299 is peanuts relative to the time saved and my hourly rate. While I could just use Bootstrap it’s starting to feel a bit too dated (subjective).
hmokiguess 3 days ago||
I recommend buying it, but I would not be surprised if you still end up using some LLM augmented workflow to do the plumbing and integration when using it. It’s not really a one-click install type of thing that you get from it if you get my analogy. Also, if your customer doesn’t care for fancy UI, then more even the case to let the AI design it for you and pick something like DaisyUI or shadcn and their MCPs with Tailwind.
jameson 4 days ago|
As a avid user of Tailwind and one who purchased Tailwind CSS Plus, it's very sad to hear.

OSS without founders having it's own managed software company is always a difficult position. (e.g. database vendors open source but also have their own company providing managed service and support allowing sustainable development). Hope of getting strong support from companies is unsustainable.

Curious what should be the business model for a library something like tailwind?

They could add a premium features but entry users not allowed to use certain features is a bad experience

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