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Posted by publicdebates 1 day ago

Ask HN: How can we solve the loneliness epidemic?

Countless voiceless people sit alone every day and have no one to talk to, people of all ages, who don't feel that they can join any local groups. So they sit on social media all day when they're not at work or school. How can we solve this?
740 points | 1170 commentspage 6
wjholden 1 day ago|
Sports. CrossFit and similar social sports have been healthy for me and for many others, and I think the community is at least equal to the exercise in improving people's lives.

Not saying this is the only way, but it made a big difference for me and my friends. I realize the physical challenges are artificial, but so is an Advent of Code puzzle when you already have a day job. Hard things are worth doing because they're hard, and they're even better when done together with those you love.

jvm___ 22 hours ago||
Ritual, purpose and community are what's required to build a group.

I cured my own loneliness episode by joining a local running group. It provides the same kind of thing as church. Ritual, we meet every week and there's a few different groups. Purpose, it doesn't feel useless to be improving your fitness level. And community comes when you suffer through a run with others.

Showing up regularly means you start to integrate people into your lives as you know when they skip a week for a vacation or something.

I went from living in my town and not knowing anyone for 17 years to having 20+ friends or people I can say hello to and have a chat.

Just find a local running group, or start one. You want the "meet at Starbucks at 6:30 on Tuesday" ones. Show up and keep showing up and you'll make friends. It's impossible to be on your phone when you run and there's always something running related to keep the conversation going.

j2kun 1 day ago||
Make a social app whose goal is to get people off their phone as quickly as possible. There used to be a slew of apps where you a press a button to indicate "I'm bored/free, who wants to hang out?" and then you get matched with your contact list and anyone else who pressed the button at the same time. But for whatever reason they all flamed out and died.
gulugawa 1 day ago||
I think the solution is for the app to advertise public social events where people can make connections and exchange contact information in person.

Allowing random people to message each other without meeting in person is a mistake. The nonverbal cues people get from in person interactions are helpful for discovering shared interested and personality compatibility.

hireshbrem 1 day ago|||
one issue is that if you leave it to the free market, you will just get more issues. for monopolies, it's more profitable to keep someone unhealthy (and depressed) than it is to make someone healthy once forever.
kccqzy 1 day ago||
Privacy reasons. You don’t want a VC funded startup to know your contact list and your location (because hanging out in real life requires physical proximity).
cocoto 1 day ago||
Personally I’m living with a partner (only 50% of the time for now), have only two social activities per month outside work in average and some small talk at work. I don’t need more and have no intention to volunteer, join church or anything like that just for the social aspect. I guess the big problem is the (growing?) minority having close to no social experiences.
publicdebates 1 day ago|
A young woman explained to me the other week what you're doing now. She said it's become a meme called Bean Soup. I'm grateful for all the friends I've made since I starting doing my signs. Genuinely fulfilling friendships, for the first time in my life.
nathan_f77 13 hours ago||
I've had a great time at board game meetups. I highly recommend finding a group of people who play modern board games once a week. There should be at least one in most towns or cities. It can take a while to find the right group, but once you do, you can make some lifelong friends just by turning up every week. I've had some great experiences and a few not as great ones around the world and at various times. My favorites ones always involve food and alcohol in a nice bar or pub, usually starting with some casual or social deduction games. I now have a pretty huge collection of board games. I just moved to a new town though and it's pretty small so I need to be a bit more proactive. Haven't played a lot recently.

Confession... I don't actually like board games all that much, and I don't really care if I win. Some of the games are really cool but I just love hanging out and having fun with a group of people.

luplex 1 day ago||
There are, of course, multiple causes for loneliness. We can't fix them all with one clear action. Here are the main five, in my view:

First, social media. It's too easy to temporarily forget about your loneliness by staying home and doomscrolling or watching TV.

Second, increased mobility. People move around the whole continent now for work, removing them from their closest and oldest social connections.

Third, God is dead. Churches as community centers are dying out. Young people don't trust them anymore, because they don't believe in God, and because churches had many scandals. Secular community centers are very rare and struggle with funding.

Fourth, work is more stressful now. There used to be more time to socialize, but in our quest for productivity, work became denser with fewer idle times.

Fifth, fewer people want to have kids. Much has been written about this.

Now what can we do at societal scale? First of all, study the phenomenon more closely. Who is lonely? Who isn't? Which interventions work? Which cultural factors are important? At your local scale, you can just call or meet a friend.

kruffalon 1 day ago|
> Fourth, work is more stressful now. There used to be more time to socialize, but in our quest for productivity, work became denser with fewer idle times

The we here is not most people.

The quest for higher productivity is not something people really care about.

asim 13 hours ago||
I think this is quite an interesting question. Especially for the developer audience. If you're an engineer, then you likely have similar tendencies to a lot of other engineers. You want to spend time alone, but you also feel the need to combat this loneliness, isolation and depression that it leads to. You want to connect, but struggle to do so. The internet, software, reddit and other places became a safe haven, but then they perpetuated what was hindering you in the first place. I say these things because I'm that person. I lost decades to this sort of escapism that comes from an online world. Unfortunately the answers rarely work for us at the time we're going through this. It's rare for someone to just break out of the cycle. Something has to change, but it's a change that comes from deep within yourself.

Sometimes you have to reflect on the why. Why am I here, why am I in this situation. And often it's that deeper internal reflection that starts to motivate something, change something. Listen, I lost decades. And I still struggle. But no one else can solve this for you.

In terms of the loneliness epidemic itself. You have to split it into many separate categories. Isolation comes in many forms. For the online generation, who grew up with the internet, we are specific category. But I'll tell you, the path to fixing it has more to do with understanding why we are here than filling the time with arbitrary activities or socialising. Yes we need human connnection and yes we should explore, learn and grow. But fundamentally the first question we should be asking, why am I here, what is my purpose, now what should I do with that.

In my case, I did find talking to someone helped, but only after coming to the realisation that I needed to talk to someone and then proactively seeking it out. As much as we want to solve the problem for many people, they have to walk a path before they can see the truth. We can offer alternatives, but people will only find what they're looking for when they're ready.

hombre_fatal 1 day ago||
Spending time in parts of Latin America or western Europe or east Asia and then coming back to the US, you can see a lot of ways in which we've built loneliness into the fabric of US culture.

It goes beyond car culture. It's probably illegal to build a cafe within walking distance of your neighborhood or into the first floor of your apartment complex.

Americans get an idea of how bad we have it when we go on vacation, but we don't see it as something that can be built at home.

alecco 1 day ago||
> Latin America or western Europe or east Asia

I can attest both LatAm and Europe are quickly turning the same way. At least in the bigger cities. Take public transport and 70% are frying their brains with their phones on algorithmic timelines, dumb mobile games, or worse. Women even more. You go to a bar and try to start a conversation and people look at you like you are a creep or a scammer. I've heard this happens to Gen Z, too.

timeon 23 hours ago|||
> phones on algorithmic timelines

Are you suggesting that American tech helped spread this loneliness worldwide? Ultimate triumph of individualism.

jb1991 17 hours ago||
It’s hard to deny the role of social media in all of this.
watwut 15 hours ago|||
Public transport was never a place where you start conversation with a stranger. Nor even meant to be that space. I genuinely do not understand why would you pick public transport as a place where you would expect people to socialize.

And yes, I was using public transport before cell phones. And yes, women are using public transport more then men, always were, because if the family have only one car, man is typically the one using it.

cm2012 1 day ago|||
Both latam and western europe report and east Asia report higher loneliness rates than the US or the Nordics. Very consistently.
marcus_holmes 22 hours ago|||
American culture allows you folks to talk to each other, though.

Growing up British means that I literally can't talk to a stranger unless I'm in a pub and have two pints inside me.

carabiner 19 hours ago|||
In America no one really drinks any more.
MrVandemar 13 hours ago|||
There's a loophole. All dog owners are allowed to strike up conversations with other dog owners about their dogs.

That's only if you like dogs, I guess.

NedF 23 hours ago|||
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jacobgkau 1 day ago|||
> or into the first floor of your apartment complex.

I wouldn't trust a cafe built into an apartment complex. I'd expect it to be low-quality, over-priced food placed specifically to try and make a quick buck off people who don't know any better or who physically can't get somewhere better.

You're right that it goes beyond car culture (and zoning laws are part of car culture), but I think it also goes beyond zoning laws. A lack of a social contract between people (individually) and businesses these days is probably involved, too. All these things are interrelated.

t-writescode 23 hours ago|||
I’m literally surrounded by these shops, as is anyone in any town that doesn’t depend on suburbia. It’s *wonderful* and the prices are good.

I’m eating a whole dinner for about $10 tonight, out. Easily like 1300 calories of very delicious food.

In the PNW.

jacobgkau 23 hours ago||
You're "literally surrounded" by cafes built into the first floor of your apartment complex? Because that's what I was very clearly talking about. Not shops within walking distance.

(I didn't ask and don't care if you think your cheap meal's "very delicious," by the way. That's not the main indicator of quality. Many Americans would call a Big Mac "very delicious.")

t-writescode 23 hours ago|||
Well, let’s see, in this building - an apartment complex, there’s:

  * a coffee shop (that just closed)
  * a desert shop
  * a fine dining shop (that is open rarely
The apartment building next door has:

  * a ramen shop
  * a high-end burger shop
  * a high-end barber shop
The apartment one apartment away has:

  * a nail salon
  * a hawaiian food shop
So, yes.
dpark 18 hours ago|||
Where do you live that this is so bizarre? Multi story buildings with retail space on the bottom and residential space at the top are very common in cities.

> I didn't ask and don't care if you think your cheap meal's "very delicious," by the way. That's not the main indicator of quality. Many Americans would call a Big Mac "very delicious."

What’s the point of this? This is just needlessly rude.

PlatoIsADisease 1 day ago||||
Maybe consider that the overpriced part is fine because you are paying for the time you save.

There are many ways to look at things

-t. not an Absurdist, but sometimes I use the tools.

jacobgkau 1 day ago||
There's a limit to the convenience factor. Fast food used to be cheap because it was faster than real food. Now it's expensive, and less real than it was to start with. A hip no-name cafe owned by a huge conglomerate charging $17 for a microwaved sandwich or something is objectively a bad deal.

Ensuring you never have to leave the comfort of your apartment complex is also of questionable relevance to solving loneliness/getting people to meet each other.

> -t. not an Absurdist, but sometimes I use the tools.

Did you accidentally paste part of a different comment or something?

SchemaLoad 1 day ago|||
Only if it's a rare novelty. If having a cafe near by is just the norm, it isn't any more expensive.
jacobgkau 23 hours ago||
I didn't say "near by," I said "built into an apartment complex," which is one of the things the person I replied to threw out casually as an option.
SchemaLoad 22 hours ago|||
I've lived in places that had restaurants on the ground floor of the building and they were the same prices as anywhere else. I'm actually surprised you find this unrealistic since it's so common in Australian cities. It's pretty much standard to have retail on ground and apartments above.
dpark 18 hours ago||
This is common in American cities, too. And European cities I’ve visited. And probably most cities that I haven’t visited.

When I visited Tokyo one really jarring thing was to realize that restaurants and cafes and such were often on the 2nd or 3rd floor. It’s so dense and so high-rise, in some areas at least, that these “ground floor” shops are also pushed upwards and inhabit the bottom 2-3 floors instead of just the ground floor.

yibg 16 hours ago|||
Why is that odd? Lots of apartment buildings in big cities have the first floor (or 2) for retail. Some apartments / condos have a whole mall downstairs.
PlatoIsADisease 1 day ago|||
As someone who was a libertarian as a child, I assure you the idea of relaxing regulations is quite unpopular.

Lots of factors cause this. Obviously established businesses hate competition. There seems to be a tendency for politicians to make more laws as a bandaid rather than remove old(but this isnt universally true). And finally and probably most importantly, people like the status quo. Change is scary.

Also I live in the suburbs and we have a coffee shop within 2 minutes walking. I just have a hard time paying $4 for a coffee to meet people when most people are on their laptops anyway.

My friends come from sports clubs, parties, and the parents of my kids via birthday parties.

abalashov 1 day ago||
> Americans get an idea of how bad we have it when we go on vacation, but we don't see it as something that can be built at home.

It's so strange how this works. They go, sometimes repeatedly, to enjoy these rather basic things, but behave as though they're visiting a quaint Disneyland of sorts and as though there could be no lessons they could take away and apply toward a vision of their own community...

notatoad 1 day ago||
americans are too terrified of somebody getting something for free to ever tolerate that. it's okay in other countries, because other countries are deserving of charity, and the americans who travel to them have implicitly passed the wealth test by affording to travel there.

but back home in america, any nice thing in a public space might be an un-earned benefit to an american citizen who is slightly less rich. and we can't have that. if an American wants an amenity, they sould pay for it. parks, benches, pathways, any sort of gathering space, it all can't be had because it might attract poor people.

2c0m 1 day ago||
No one is asking for this advice, but I'm sharing it anyways.

My #1 top priority this year is _social health_. I'm taking it into my own hands. Mostly just continuing things I'm already doing with tremendous payoff. My measurable result is going to be throwing my own birthday party in fall. I've never done that before, I've never had enough friends in my city!

No one group or app is going to come save you from loneliness. You have to get up, go outside, and find people.

0. Say yes to everything, at least if you're new in town. Don't care how scared you are of X social situation. "Do it scared" - @jxnl

1. I am part of my community's swing dancing scene. I take classes, go to social dances, I _show up_ even when I don't feel like it. People recognize me now, know my name, etc. I'm also a regular at my gym. Find a place and be a regular face there. (_how did I become a swing dancer? I got invited, and my social policy prevented me from saying no!_)

2. If I have no social plans for a week I do a timeleft dinner (dinner with 5 strangers). Always have something on the books. I call this my "social workout". If I vibe with anyone I ask if they want to grab ramen the following weekend. Leads me to point #3..

3. Initiate plans. Everyone is waiting for that text "hey, want to go do x with me?". Be that person. I have an almost 100% enthusiastic response rate to asking people to do literally anything. Go on a random walk? Go to costco? Go checkout ramen or pizza spot? You don't have to think of anything special. Whatever you're already doing.. ask someone to come with! Soon they start inviting you to do random stuff.

4. (experimental) I don't drink, which does curtail my social opportunities. I'm considering updating my drinking policy this year. My hypothesis is that the benefits of having a strong community out-weigh the health benefits of abstinence.

throwaway2037 1 day ago|

    > 4. (experimental) I don't drink, which does curtail my social opportunities. I'm considering updating my drinking policy this year. My hypothesis is that the benefits of having a strong community out-weigh the health benefits of abstinence.
This is a very mature, balanced take. If I may advise: Try some experiments on yourself. You already know how you feel and how you socialise without drinking. Try drinking various amounts in different social settings. How does it feel? Do you like yourself and your life more before? Then go back. Else, continue experimenting until you find a sweet spot.
cindyllm 1 day ago||
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mcdow 1 day ago|
It's the phones dude. It's literally just the phones. Get rid of the phones and you fix it.
bell-cot 1 day ago|
Old geezer take: If you're referring to smart phones - social engagement in the US was already headed down 5 decades before those were invented. I blame TV.
dvergeylen 14 hours ago|||
Indeed, TV enabled millions of people to laugh at the same joke simultaneously, each sitting alone on their own sofa.
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