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Posted by 01-_- 2 hours ago

Google co-founder reveals that "many" of the new hires do not have a degree(www.yahoo.com)
59 points | 70 comments
cultofmetatron 1 hour ago|
CTO of a startup. built the entire cloud backend and added features as a sole backend dev for the first 3 years. Before that I worked for several years in SF as a developer working all the way from a self taught junior to senior engineer to now a CTO with 4 engineers working with me towards out series A.

Some of the best engineers I know don't even have a college degree.

with that in mind, It fills me with general revulsion at the idea that "overlooking credentialism as long as they can do the job to a high standard" is "concerning." I want new engineers to have access to the same Ladder I had access to when I was up and comming.

marginalia_nu 1 hour ago||
Why does the article suddenly start talking about power grids before jumping back to its topic like nothing happened?

> If you spent years and tens of thousands of dollars earning a degree, companies' hiring people without that credential might feel frustrating. The change could leave graduates wondering if their time and money were well-spent.

> AI's popularity also creates environmental pressures. Training and running AI systems requires tons of electricity and water for cooling data centers. As AI becomes more embedded in hiring, operations, and daily business functions, energy consumption grows.

> This can strain power grids, increase costs for consumers, and contribute to pollution if the electricity comes from sources such as gas or coal. AI may help optimize some clean energy systems, but its resource demands present trade-offs.

> What's being done about changing hiring practices? The business community is recognizing that degree requirements often screen out talented people unnecessarily.

andrewflnr 1 hour ago||
They key context is the sentence just before your quote. I guess they think it's a downstream reason that lack of degree requirements is concerning, since it might result in more AI usage. Which, yeah, is quite a reach and maybe genuinely insane.
marginalia_nu 1 hour ago||
Oh, I got a huge ad between those so it really did not connect. Still pretty weird, but not completely detached at least.
GoldenMonkey 1 hour ago||
AI generated content?
andrewflnr 1 hour ago|||
Or possibly just written at an AI level of self-awareness. The irony of an AI written article injecting AI alarmism so hamfistedly would be quite something... but not impossible I guess.
01-_- 1 hour ago||||
On Yahoo!!!?? I don't think so.
burkaman 1 hour ago|||
It's not written by Yahoo, it's a syndicated post from https://www.thecooldown.com/.
RankingMember 1 hour ago|||
Haha, I don't even know why Yahoo exists these days- my only interaction with them is occasionally getting linked AI-generated crap like this.
Loughla 1 hour ago|||
I really wish they hadn't shut down Yahoo answers. Some of that was unhinged and amazing.

I do miss when people argued whether Yahoo or ask Jeeves was better. Those were good times.

RankingMember 50 minutes ago||
So many classics, and of course it birthed the "How is babby formed" meme. Guess it got too hard to justify the use of resources when the rest of the platform was basically in flames though.
spullara 1 hour ago|||
you don't use yahoo finance???
RankingMember 49 minutes ago||
You're right, that is one thing they do well.
jeron 1 hour ago|||
need to add "make sure article flows cohesively and doesn't jump around topics" to the system prompt
nospice 1 hour ago||
As far as I know, Google never had a requirement to have a degree for any software engineering job. What they did pretty aggressively, though, is sourcing candidates from universities with top-notch engineering programs (CMU, Stanford, etc). So they ended up with a significant proportion of such hires not because they rejected everyone else, but because their intake process produced more leads of this sort and treated them preferentially. Basically, for applicants going through that funnel, they guaranteed an onsite interview.

But they always had a good number of people with no degrees or degrees wholly unrelated to computers.

spike021 56 minutes ago|
I attended San Jose State University and not once did I see Google at a CompSci/eng career fair or trying to hold any events.

Can't comment on if that's still the case as it's been several years now since I graduated, but it was notable.

same could be said for Adobe and their HQ was even closer to SJSU than Google's was.

nsoldiac 1 hour ago||
The type of roles w/ non-degree holders matters here. I'm sure Google offers a great career in any of its roles, but the article makes it sound like positions Stanford grads apply to (PM + eng) already have lots of non-degree holders. Pointing at company-wide stats to support that claim is weaksauce. Over a third of Google employees are not engineers/PMs (if this is true: https://www.unifygtm.com/insights-headcount/google). Who's to say the vast majority of non-degree holders aren't clustered in their sales and support org? I think the 77% stat is a great signal, love to see reduced gatekeeping in any job market. But, signaling you'll find folks without degrees in eng squads across Google doesn't seem obvious.
elzbardico 8 minutes ago|
I have a few friends either without degrees or degrees in unrelated areas working as engineers for Google. In my experience, most tech companies were always a bit flexible for that. Google at their beginning, was a bit anal about wanting only PhDs from Stanford, but this was really during their initial years.

It is like Facebook that once wanted only young people and now have their share of greybeards.

It is traditional economy companies and consultancies like Accenture that usually don't have exceptions for people without formal credentials.

JohnLeitch 1 hour ago||
Interesting Microsoft is mentioned as recently dropping degree requirements. First time I worked there as an FTE without a degree was 2012. I don't see this as any sort of turn of events in the industry. It's always been "degree or equivalent experience" as far as I can remember.
taurath 1 hour ago|
They cull resumes in the pile by degree - you can get in with a reference nowadays but most places the front door is closed unless you have a pedigree.
JohnLeitch 1 hour ago||
Maybe things are different now, but I'm on my third year with my current employer, and I found them organically, sending my resume out on Indeed. Admittedly the MS stuff was largely kicked off by contacts, but that's the only instance throughout my career. And those connections were gained through other work, of course.
alphazard 35 minutes ago||
CS degree is starting to become a bimodal distribution. There are enough people who thought they could buy a high-salary job by getting a CS degree, and universities advertising to that effect, that the market is now flooded with candidates who have degrees on paper, but don't have the mojo.

Their brain doesn't work like a hacker's, and they would have to work very hard to compensate, but they got into this for the easy high paying job, they don't want to work hard.

Somehow other degrees seem to be better predictors of competency. A lot of physics/math folks, and various non-software engineers realized that they have a hacker's brain, and programming pays more than what they were doing, so they got into software.

elzbardico 44 seconds ago||
One thing that I always observed is that there is a huge difference between people who enrolled in a CS program to learn programming, and people who learned programming years before enrolling in CS.
ThrowawayR2 14 minutes ago||
I wouldn't say it's a recent phenomenon. Hackers have been making unflattering jokes about mediocrity in corporate programmers at least as far back as the 1970s.
donohoe 1 hour ago||
I have hired many talented programmers with degrees, but those degrees were in Economics or Literature. Very few from Comp Sci background.

I never "require" a degree in the job postings I put out here. I don't even mention it.

ironman1478 1 hour ago||
I just don't understand how this is true unless you're doing something extremely basic. So much context is missing in this post.

Having a CS degree doesn't mean much, but I don't see how a lit major is going to learn how to be productive in an embedded environment for example. There is just too much domain specific knowledge that isn't based purely on intelligence and can't be inferred from first principles.

internetter 57 minutes ago|||
I taught myself how to program as a teenager by… programming. While I didn’t have an academic background, I was perfectly capable of contributing to OSS and working. Rarely ever did I think “I wish I had a degree to do this.” The little bit of academics I did need I also self taught, like time complexity. The only case really where the degree may be helpful is leetcode type interview questions where you need to know the algorithm.
theteapot 49 minutes ago|||
And most CS grads forget all that after a few years because it's not relevant to what they're actually doing.
ironman1478 50 minutes ago|||
So you basically have a CS degree. I learned C in 7th grade and was completely self taught. I then got a CS degree because I just wanted to learn more about it and be around people who were also enthusiastic about CS.

There is something disingenuous about the parent post. Highly motivated people will always be good at what they want to do. I'm good at guitar, but never went to music school. Highly motivated individuals though are the exception, not the rule. If you take two random individuals, one with a lit degree and one with a CS degree, the CS degree person will know more in the domain of CS and be more likely to write useful software.

The parent post is conflating being highly selective about personality type and attributing it to the degree.

filoleg 50 minutes ago|||
> I just don't understand how this is true unless you're doing something extremely basic.

The same way it is true for people with no college degree at all. People can learn on the side. Some of them might have had a minor in CS, or worked on hobby software projects in the meantime. Those hires might become some of the best, but finding them is difficult.

Out of the two such SWEs I worked with at Microsoft years ago, one of them had no college degree at all, and another one had an entirely unrelated degree (with his previous full-time job being an air traffic controller at a nearby airport). None of the SWE work they did was trivial or basic even in the slightest.

sodafountan 44 minutes ago||
The best developer I've ever worked with had a degree in Philosophy. He leveraged React in a way that was elegant back when React was still fairly new. It was super hard to scaffold back then, but we got it done and completed a pretty important project with it. It was shipped, hosted, and delivered into production for the company to use on time (it was somewhat of an internal tool, with a public-facing side for data collection).

One of my best working experiences.

nixass 1 hour ago||
Traditional Germans in this thread going through mental breakdown
jakub_g 47 minutes ago||
Same about traditional French. In my first company, to be hired you needed a degree, preferably from a French "Grande École".
gtirloni 1 hour ago||
Anyone that went through the German visa process as well.
lazyasciiart 10 minutes ago||
Or the US visa process, like all of Google's H1B hires.
elAhmo 1 hour ago||
And this is news why? Isn't this always been the case, sure CS majors were employed, but so many people in the industry have no formal degrees.
cmrdporcupine 1 hour ago|
It's somewhat relevant in the context of Google only because the mythos behind the early part of the company (two Stanford PhDs, etc) and also because the general vibe at least in the early part of the company was really like it was kind of a big university of its own. Boatloads of Masters and PhD students, lots of talk about which school you came from, blah blah blah. Complete with a form "publish or perish" and "poster board sessions" and stuff that all felt very foreign to me when I joined (as someone not coming from academia).

It was always seen, in the first decade of the millennia, as a kind of very academia friendly/focused place.

I had impostor syndrome the whole time I was there as a result.

I think that reputation has lessened.

aabajian 1 hour ago|
When your most potent competitor companies (FB, MSFT, Apple) and investments (OpenAI) were all founded by college drop-outs, it does make you wonder whether college itself was holding these individuals back. I'm sure they are exceptions rather than the rule.
newman8r 1 hour ago||
I think just because you've studied something for years doesn't mean you're good at it. I've interviewed plenty curious hackers with no degree who are miles ahead of CS people with degrees.

Of course that's just anecdotal and may be the exception. And there's plenty of CS grads who have been passionate about the space their entire lives.

I studied Spanish for 3 years in high school, coasted by. I'm a complete beginner though. Nowadays I have a bit more curiosity in learning it again, and I'd probably make more progress in a few months than I did in all those years.

mikkupikku 1 hour ago|||
If you already have the necessary skills and knowledge, and connections, then wasting years of your youth (when you have the most productive potential) in extended schooling is going to be a disadvantage. If.
gambiting 1 hour ago||
Here in UK it's "well known" that going to a prestigious school like Eton is about being in one class with kids of prime ministers, presidents and oil sheikhs, so you have those connections for life and you can always call up on those. In that context going to university and studying almost anything could be a waste of time if you have someone who can help you get into places straight away.
bluedino 1 hour ago||
On the whole, there's a difference between 'got accepted to Harvard and dropped out after 2 years to start MegaCorp', and 'never went in the first place'
inetknght 1 hour ago||
As someone who never went in the first place: that difference is rather small for many (definitely not all) industries, with software engineering being one of them.
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