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Posted by dbushell 15 hours ago

Proton Spam and the AI Consent Problem(dbushell.com)
431 points | 279 commentspage 2
andy 2 hours ago|
I just signed up for proton vpn, before I read this post. So far so good other than this post, but I notice I can't access my own freshdesk help desk while on proton vpn. It says location not allowed.
causalscience 14 hours ago||
I only use Proton for the spam or temporary low value (and free) email accounts. Proton also tries to do everything, which I don't like. If I did I'd use Google.

The thing I pay for is Tuta. The cheapest tier is way more generous than Proton and the product is simpler.

guilhermesfc 14 hours ago||
I have also been using Tuta for years. No complaints
littlecranky67 13 hours ago||
I have the exact opposite opinion. I use proton business together with their email, vpn, calendar, drive (on macOS), password manager etc. and switched specifically because of their encryption, data protection and fulls-size feature bundle. Plus, I migrated vom Office365 and it became a shitshow to manage and was full of bugs. And I had a separate bitwarden subscription, and a separate VPN subscription. Now it is one package, much preferred.
celsoazevedo 7 minutes ago|||
I understand the convenience side of this, but it's also risky. What happens if they suspend your account for some reason?

"Never put all your eggs in one basket."

causalscience 12 hours ago|||
Oh yeah, having your passwords online is a great idea /s
littlecranky67 8 hours ago||
It is, if they are encrypted. Without a password manager, I would inevitable have to reuse the same passwords over and over on my hundreds of different accounts. With a password manager, they are auto-generated random gibberish. And yes, even when using 2FA, you should have different passwords for all accounts.

Bitwarden, OnePassword, LastPass, Proton Pass etc. are password managers with dozens of millions of users that agree.

causalscience 8 hours ago||
It's not, because the world we live in isn't binary. It's not true that "it's encrypted therefore nothing can go wrong". Putting your password manager online increases the risk of an accident.

And just because millions of people think this is a good idea, doesn't make it a good idea. Millions of people also reuse their passwords and that doesn't make it a good idea either.

littlecranky67 8 hours ago|||
Of course it is a tradeoff between security and usability. Not putting your passwords online forces you to either remember all passwords (which will lead to re-use) or you will be only available to access your accounts (and thus most of the internet) from your home. Or you will have to come up with elaborate system how to carry your passwords on some kind of secured device etc. A password manager (alongside 2FA) is a very good security/usability compromise for a lot of people. YMMV.
throwaway173738 7 hours ago|||
The thing is that accounts get cracked because of reuse all the time. Whereas they seldom if at all get cracked because they’re in a password manager.
causalscience 3 hours ago||
That's why I don't do either of those.
bigstrat2003 2 hours ago||
Good for you. The rest of us mortals who can't memorize dozens of unique complex passwords need to use a password manager.
anigbrowl 14 hours ago||
This isn't an AI issue. Marketing departments have been like this forever, or at least since the infamous Canter & Siegel 'Green Card' email.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laurence_Canter_and_Martha_Sie...

Insanity 5 hours ago||
I think the last line is important. Proton isn’t perfect, neither are others. And proton is imo the best suited to my (current) needs.

I’m a (mostly) happy paying customer for their email, and also use their VPN and Authenticator. My worst experience I guess is the Authenticator app being laggy, which is not really all that bad.

esafak 4 hours ago||
This is a user-facing bug borne of engagement-driven development and a lack of user empathy. When a user opts out of a category, he should not receive cross posts. They ought to have had checks for this. The user did well to bring attention to it.
mark_l_watson 1 hour ago||
Is this even worth writing an article? In almost a decade of paying for Proton I have ran across two annoying bugs that eventually got fixed. Report bugs and be patient.
Tepix 13 hours ago||
I had a similar issue with Microsoft today. They obviously invented a new "Copilot Newsletter" and subscribed my address to it, without my consent.

I wonder what the legislation says (I'm in Germany). I know that some business related mails are deemed legal, but this seems to clearly cross the line.

chrisjj 9 hours ago||
UK legislation says it is illegal. MS are serial offenders and the UK regulator has charged them not once.
gingerlime 8 hours ago|||
Same. Posted a comment about it [0]. I already filed a GDPR and ePrivacy compliants. Happy to share notes. Contact details in my profile.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46730206

weedhopper 7 hours ago||
Here is an interesting case of a failure of the regulations, I’m curious how this goes

https://www.gofundme.com/f/hold-mojang-accountable-for-their...

user34283 12 hours ago||
[flagged]
direwolf20 12 hours ago|||
Of course it appears repeatedly. It occurs every single time they run a new marketing campaign.
gingerlime 8 hours ago|||
no unsubscribe button in this MS Copilot campaign. And they’re trying to gaslight like it’s some essential notification when it’s clearly and blatantly unnecessary marketing spam.
RayVR 15 hours ago||
I have often found proton’s intrusive marketing campaigns annoying.

I use them for email and that’s all I want. Every time they market some new product to me, I get closer to moving to a new provider.

BrouteMinou 14 hours ago||
I canceled my subscription, and deleted my account due to the nagging and promotional annoyances.

I've contacted the support, but they basically don't care.

There are not multiple ways to fight back against this behavior. I am now with mailfence until they start the same circus.

unethical_ban 6 hours ago|
Y'all are wild. I have most of their emails turned on and barely think about Proton's comms. Rarely get one, briefly skim if I do.
Night_Thastus 5 hours ago||
Yeah, I've always been surprised at how negative HN can get about Proton. They're not perfect, but man at least they're trying to fight the privacy fight.

I've always had a very good experience with them. It's cheap, fast and their spam filter works well. Maybe 1x-2x a year I get an email from them about some promotion but that's it.

cheschire 2 hours ago||
I always wondered if it’s just a few actually upset customers mixed with a ton of astroturfing by competitors pretending to be outraged proton customers.
osmsucks 14 hours ago|
Great timing: I just received a Copilot spam email from GitHub. I don't remember opting in to such marketing communications, instead I generally opt-out from such communications as soon as I sign up to a service...
Tepix 13 hours ago|
Same here. They created a new newsletter and added you to it without your consent.
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