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Posted by sberens 2 days ago

Lessons learned shipping 500 units of my first hardware product(www.simonberens.com)
227 points | 122 comments
cwal37 1 hour ago|
> As someone who generally stays out of politics, I didn’t know much about the incoming administration’s stance towards tariffs, though I don’t think anyone could have predicted such drastic hikes.

I have an appreciation for very bright lamps, and the project is neat, but that stuck out to me.

I'm always fascinated by people who both feel comfortable ignoring maybe the single most impactful society-determining apparatus but will also say "no one could have seen that coming", where that is whatever they were unaware of because they chose to check out. I find the stance so fascinating because for myself, it would be impossible to not try and understand why the world is the way it is.

Everything is downstream of politics whether people want to recognize that or not, and choosing to ignore it is, in fact, a political choice.

ihaveajob 1 hour ago||
In Athens, an "idiotes" was a citizen who focused only on private matters rather than participating in the polis (city-state). Because civic participation was considered a duty, this term carried a negative connotation of being socially irresponsible or uninvolved.

This term evolved into the modern "idiot" which we are familiar with.

MichaelZuo 42 minutes ago||
Well wasnt that a good thing?

After the extermination of Melos they could credibly say they were less responsible for the actions of the polis.

And had a higher chance of deflecting the inevitable revenge on to the non idiotes Athenians.

landryraccoon 33 minutes ago|||
If one civilization is taking revenge on another I don’t think they would show that much nuance.

For one thing, wouldn’t everyone claim they were against their old polis? How would the invaders have any idea who was an idiote?

I just don’t believe it’s at all easy to avoid the fate of your nation , and I especially doubt that the politically ignorant have a better chance of avoiding that fate than the well informed.

MichaelZuo 24 minutes ago||
I did say higher chance, not guaranteed to avoid it.

The counter extermination was only 5% of Athens total population, or so historians say, so it seems like a lot of nuance was shown.

janderson215 24 minutes ago|||
Funny seeing people pushing for other people becoming more active in politics with the assumption that “being more involved” means with their political fights, then get worried when the other side grows or intensifies.
chillfox 32 minutes ago|||
I find the "no one could have seen it coming" crowd extremely tiring, they usually always say that about something anyone who paid a tiny bit of attention could see coming.

It's genuinely baffling to me why business owners pay so little attention to the politics that will directly impact their business.

The entire tariffs thing was incredible obvious to me (I am Australian) and I only check in on US politics for 10 min a couple of times a month, any less and it would be zero.

polishdude20 16 minutes ago|||
You could also say politics is downstream of other forces that are less global and more local. Some people choose to stay aware of their more local forces rather than the grand ones.
spacebanana7 43 minutes ago|||
I had a university friend who spent hundreds of hours on his YouTube channel whilst the rest of spent hundreds of hours arguing about politics.

He’s now unimaginably successful at YouTube but at least I’m better at predicting the content of tomorrow’s newspapers.

renewiltord 1 hour ago|||
Realistically, everyone always seems to think everything was predictable but I have maybe a handful of friends who sold the Russell 2000 futures short and then rebounded long who made millions off the various tariff trades. Ironically, Ukrainian and Russian. Ex-HFT but just doing very normal click trading. So I don't get it. Why isn't everyone who can predict the future so accurately a (deca-)millionaire?
derektank 41 minutes ago|||
It would have been very hard to find a counterparty that didn’t think Donald Trump was going to raise tariffs prior to his inauguration. He was very transparent about this (though the exact amount has fluctuated pretty wildly). Hard to make money when nobody else is taking the other side of the bet.
ohyoutravel 18 minutes ago|||
Plenty of things are predictable in the sense that one can bucket them. Tariffs were very predictable because we know the pedo has that unilateral lever and talks about wielding it. But who would have predicted that out of all the stupid tariff things that might happen, it would be things like tariffing allies, tariffing uninhabited islands, TACO tariffs, or a giant board with “reciprocal tariffs”? It requires not only predicting specific stupidity, but taking an aggressive position.

Whoever was holding aggressive poly market positions on “POTUS poops pants at presser” is a millionaire now. We all know he wears diapers and has massive flatulence, but who would have predicted that specific thing?

EarlKing 52 minutes ago|||
What I find particularly galling is that he failed to learn perhaps the most important lesson: Maybe he wouldn't have these kind of problems if he hadn't outsourced his manufacturing to China but kept in on-shore instead.
ungreased0675 28 minutes ago|||
I did wonder how many less issues would have popped up if the lamp wasn’t manufactured in China. Was a little surprised it wasn’t addressed.
nemomarx 10 minutes ago|||
Last Trump term, a small business making PC cases locally in california went out of business because of steel tariffs. I'm not sure that local manufacturing in small batches is much safer given there's aluminum and other material tariffs this time too?
skybrian 1 hour ago|||
I'm doubtful that knowing how much politics matters, but only in a vague way, would have been enough to help them. Could someone who was obsessed with following the Trump administration's every move have predicted the tariffs in advance? I don't think financial markets priced them in?
skrtskrt 1 hour ago|||
This isn't about timing the market by being clairvoyant about the timing of a madman's tariffs.

This is about taking reasonable risk calculations as a small business with extremely high tariff exposure, when a president who did a bunch of high tariffs last time wins and election and says he'll do it again.

Sure multi-trillion-dollar financial institutions didn't run for the hills because they get paid when it goes up and paid when it goes down.

straydusk 1 hour ago||||
It was extremely easy to see them coming, because he talked about the repeatedly.

The markets priced in him backing down repeatedly, which he has.

derektank 39 minutes ago||||
They were very much priced in, you had retailers purchasing a lot of imports in Q1 to prepare for them. What wasn’t priced in was the scale, which is what resulted in the initial sell off in April until the administration walked back the steepest rates
mmh0000 1 hour ago||||
He literally said he was gonna:

"Trump vows massive new tariffs if elected, risking global economic war"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2023/08/22/trump-tra...

(https://archive.is/20231125045858/https://www.washingtonpost...)

EDIT - Found this after my post, a MUCH better "he said it":

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/agenda47/agenda47-president-tru...

throwup238 1 hour ago|||
And he did it last time too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tariffs_in_the_first_Trump_adm...

“Living under a rock” is the technical term, I believe.

JKCalhoun 1 hour ago|||
Yep, in his first term he was called "tariff man" (among other things).
skybrian 1 hour ago||||
He didn't do it the same way last time. Trump's second term is significantly different.
cyanydeez 1 hour ago|||
Yeah, I find it curiously delusional, but the reality seems to be a segment of the population just refuses to accept the drastic change in pace to political change.
skybrian 1 hour ago||||
No, knowing that Trump really likes tariffs is not enough to know specifically how he's going to do it. (And which laws he's going to break to get there.)
otikik 33 minutes ago|||
Well yeah, but the man is also a pathological liar. I would not blame anyone for not believing he was going to do anything that he said he would do.
swang 1 hour ago|||
let me guess... you don't follow politics either...
seizethecheese 40 minutes ago|||
Classic hindsight bias. In fact, you could be paying a lot of attention to politics and still think tariffs were not going to go so high. Here's [1] a betting market that regularly was below 5% chance of tariffs above 40% on Chinese imports in first 100 days of Trump's second term.

https://polymarket.com/event/trump-imposes-40-blanket-tariff...

ohyoutravel 33 minutes ago||
Polymarket isn’t a source for this, lol. Maybe google trends, since there’s no reason to manipulate it. There were also reasons to anticipate the amount of the tariffs, and the absolute stupidity of the tariffs (still reeling from the Heard and McDonald islands tariffs lmao).
seizethecheese 22 minutes ago||
This is a strange position to take. Sure, Polymarket has warts, but that doesn't mean it's not a very good source for consensus opinions about the future from the past. Do you think this market was manipulated?
ohyoutravel 12 minutes ago||
Search “Polymarket manipulated” or similar and examples are legion. You can even do that on hacker news. There’s a lot of incentive to do so.
contrarian1234 6 minutes ago||
> ignoring maybe the single most impactful society-determining apparatus

It's only impactful in aggregate over a large area. At each individual location is has a negligible effect.

I think if you step back and look at what affects your life.. it's mostly not what the federal government does. I don't live in the US anymore, but I travel back to visit once every year or two to see family in San Francisco. Going back this year.. if I had lives under a rock I would have had no idea there was some terrible stuff happening in the District of Columbia. Day to day life hasn't change much in the past two years, except there are maybe fewer insane homeless? and it feels a bit less sketchy and people seem a bit more happier. If I were to guess all those changes are related to city government policies. TSA was a lot faster and friendlier - maybe that's due to the federal government? Or a fluke..

in the end sure this guys got burned by not knowing some political news thousands of miles away.. but there are more pressing issues

syntaxing 15 minutes ago||
As a MechE turned SWE, always a fun read when SWE try hardware.

> Blink and you’ll get a different measurement.

This means your environment is not controlled enough. Also quality control is usually done in terms of statistics. You might want to read something called gauge R&R. That being said, you should be proud of being able to ship a physical product!

As for quality checks, software quality teams pales in comparison to hardware quality teams. Mainly as you said, there’s a lot checks you can do in software. For hardware, bigger companies have to have their vendors qualified. The vendors have to follow their customer guidelines and do outgoing inspection. Then the company has a division to do incoming inspection. There’s a traveler that follows the kit (of parts) and there’s usually subassembly quality checks. Then final full build checks before it leaves the door.

mmh0000 1 hour ago||
This is super interesting, and I'd actually be quite interested in buying a 60K-Lumen lamp... but not at $1200.

Years ago, there was an HN article "You Need More Lumens"[1], which in turn led me down a rabbit hole.

I ended up purchasing:

   4 standard table lamps from Target,
  28 2000-lumen Cree LEDs bulbs[2] and,
   4 7-way splitters[3].
The end result is somewhere around 56,000 lumens. And I LOVE it. Makes me much happier in my home office, especially in the winter months.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10957614

[2] https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08H4RJQTT

[3] https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01FKIE6M4

jjcm 23 minutes ago||
I did something similar, but a slightly different approach. I installed grow lights in my ceiling conches: amazon.com/dp/B07BRKT56T?ref_=ppx_hzsearch_conn_dt_b_fed_asin_title_1

In my office I have 6 of these, for a total of around 13,000 lumens. It effectively 6x'd my light output for around $150. Worked wonders, especially in the PNW winter.

eek2121 1 hour ago|||
Just a fun random fact from me: We do need more lumens. Not for normal (non-production) indoor lighting in most situations, however, I always want a bright light for my outside lights, and I find that most 100w-equivalent (1500 lumens) are just not quite enough. 2,000 lumens is almost there, however, 2,500 lumens would be beneficial. Both 2,000 and 2,500 lumen bulbs either don't last in temperature extremes, or are super expensive. The power on time (think hours per day of use) and color of the light matters as well. In my use case, I need a bulb that can withstand long periods of time being run from dusk till dawn. I am willing to pay a decent amount for a guaranteed warranty for X years, however most bulbs of ANY amount of lumens only guarantee 1-3 hours a day for 1-5 years. When you need 7-10 hours a day, well...
jjcm 20 minutes ago|||
Relinking what I've already linked in a sibling comment, but I've just started having these die after 4 years of continuous use ~12hrs/day: amazon.com/dp/B07BRKT56T

Interestingly, 4 of the 6 that I had running all died in the same ~3mo period, but still I was pretty happy for 4 years of use for $25/ea.

Rychard 29 minutes ago||||
I have a pair of PAR38 LED bulbs from Cree Lighting (2100 lumens) that are rated for 25,000 hours. They're in a flood-light mounted under the eaves of my house.

I never got around to putting them on a dusk-to-dawn timer, so they've been burning 24/7 since I purchased them at the end of 2020 (except for the occasional power outage, of course). I paid $20/each for them.

Sample size of 1 (technically 2), but there are definitely products on the market that meet your criteria.

Nition 43 minutes ago||||
Have you seen the Philips TrueForce Core 40W LED bulbs? Not sure if they're sold in the US, but they're 4000 lumens, "last up to 15,000 hours" (whatever you make of that phrasing). They're quite huge but fit into a normal light socket. Not very expensive either.
hahahahhaah 38 minutes ago|||
I throw 200w led onto my garden. Enough to see where you are but a long way from daylight.
JKCalhoun 1 hour ago||
Curious if LEDs can really match the black-body that is our sun (and therefore incandescents).

I would get/build such a thing for my mental health, but I worry the LED illumination will be counter-productive.

jedbrooke 56 minutes ago||
I've found that a 250w incandescent bulb (can be had for ~$10) paired with a 4000 lumen LED produced decent results on a budget. Search for "reptile" or "chicken" lamps, they are usually red. You can feel the HEAT from a 250w light bulb.

The only thing to watch out for is that the lamp base you're using can support the high wattage.

huydotnet 1 hour ago||
> Due to a miscommunication with the factory, the injection pins were moved inside the heatsink fins, causing the cylindrical extrusions below.

What happened after this? the factory have to replace the casting mold at their own expense or you have to pay for it?

sberens 29 minutes ago|
We had to remake half the mold, and I split it 50/50 with the factory.
MagicMoonlight 34 minutes ago||
Selling a product you haven’t tested or built yet to members of the public, classic.
mircerlancerous 2 days ago||
Well-written and valuable for insight whether you have similar personal experience or not. As someone who does hardware and software as well, I relate to the challenges of making something you can hold; it's very easy to underestimate the challenge difference between the two. Your Murphy's law references are spot on; I feel comforted reading I'm not the only one this happens to! Misery does love company, and it's important to hang on that I think, so that you don't lose hope :)
sberens 1 day ago||
Thanks :) It turns out "hardware is hard" isn't an exaggeration!
kingforaday 1 hour ago||
Congrats on the first batch shipment! What an accomplishment. As someone who just crossed 10 years as a first time foray into HW, I'd like to tell you it gets easier. It doesn't but keep going anyway! Good luck.

https://blog.iotdef.com/celebrating-10-years/

pseudohadamard 1 day ago||
When I read the "I had no prior experience in hardware; I was counting on being able to pick it up quickly with the help of a couple of mechanical/electrical/firmware engineers" I was ready to curl up into a foetal position... the fact that the author actually got something like this manufactured and shipped is nothing short of miraculous, it's not just a board off JLPCB and a plastic case, this involves custom manufacturing of metal parts and whatnot, and I take my hat off to him for managing it.

This is also why so many crowdfunded projects fail, people go into it with no idea of how hard it is to get something to market and waaaay underestimate the time and cost. Years ago for the first project we did we took an absolute worst-case estimate, then doubled the time and cost on that. We came in on time and under budget, but only just.

sberens 2 hours ago||
Looking back I agree it was miraculous lol, I don't know if I'd do it again...
bigwheels 9 minutes ago||
I wonder what the end financial scenario was - did the product produce any extra money after all the errors and redone work, or was it a net loss?
mrbluecoat 21 minutes ago||
Fascinating read. I didn't know $1,200 for a lamp was a thing but clearly there's a market for it and you priced it better than Coolest Cooler or I would have.
waerhert 1 hour ago||
Great read, thanks for sharing this. I'm also coming from software and have recently started making some hardware for personal use in my free time. The idea of selling it as an actual product has occurred to me, but the thought of dealing with all the logistics quickly makes me reconsider. Congrats on your launch!
Joel_Mckay 1 hour ago|
Once you get your design polished, than consider partnering with a good Contract Manufacturer to do a trial run. Some will handle the ISO, CE, IC, UL and FCC paperwork for you. Make sure your Patents and Trademarks are locked down in both the manufacturing and marketed countries, or some ambitious folks will try to rip you off later. If your projected volumes attract profit sharing offers, than expect 10% to 14% of wholesale cost as a normal ask.

Tooling up a production line for even a toothbrush is well over $1.5m to get the first unit off the line. Building these factories is a different skill set, and everybody is bad at it at first.

Note hardware has a 1:6 success rate compared with service companies.

Best of luck, =3

Animats 39 minutes ago||
The lack of UL approval is a concern. This thing draws over 500 watts and runs hot.
sberens 2 days ago|
Author here, happy to answer any questions about the journey!
dickfickling 1 hour ago||
Got a discount code for the HN family? ;-)

Congrats on shipping. I'm living in the EU working California hours (4pm-1am) and will definitely be buying one.

sberens 1 hour ago||
Just made one - use HN100: https://getbrighter.com/discount/HN100 :)
necovek 34 minutes ago|||
Being 6'5" myself, I am worried I'd be blinded by the lamp when I stand up: to avoid adding a base under (an already bulky) base, is there a way to separate the lamp itself and have it wall/ceiling mounted (still pointing upwards)?
sberens 23 minutes ago||
Because the lamp is 6'3" it's only below eye level for people who are 6'7-8.

We had another 6'5" customer who was worried about the height but they said it was totally fine even with shoes on.

fxtentacle 2 days ago|||
Do you have any recommendations for FCC/CE testing providers?
ishyfishyy 2 hours ago|||
What was your marketing strategy once you had the $10 deposit landing page setup?
technothrasher 1 hour ago|||
I definitely feel your pain. I own a company that makes custom process controls for industrial and commercial clients, and while we work from a large library of hardware and software designs from past jobs, every job has a lot of the same "start from the beginning" feel as what you went through. Especially, the one thing you didn't check is always the thing that is somehow screwed up, and the sleepless nights wondering halfway into the project if you're in deep trouble.
stbtrax 28 minutes ago|||
How did you figure out how to price your product?
niobe 1 hour ago|||
Hello, nice write up. I'm curious about your deal with the factory and downstream suppliers.. did all these iterations and fixes cost more every time? Or it was a fixed contract? How does that all work
srtw 1 hour ago|||
Just curious about the frequency of the diodes and do they pulse simultaneously? Quite often I can perceive flicker in moving objects indoors.
sberens 1 hour ago||
We use constant current reduction dimming so there's zero flicker!
srtw 1 hour ago||
That’s great to hear and a big plus, but I’m actually curious about the undimmed full brightness refresh rate of the LEDs.
drum55 1 hour ago||
If it’s constant current the “refresh rate” is infinite, or zero depending how you look at it.
srtw 1 hour ago||
Didn’t realize how they actually function, looks like I need some new lights.
Neywiny 2 days ago||
So just to confirm, the actual cause for the controls not working is still unknown to the reader but the reason the measurements didn't make sense was swapped labels?
sberens 1 day ago||
The controls weren't working because we had wired them up according to the labels which were wrong (which is also why the measurements didn't make sense to us).
Neywiny 1 day ago||
Ah. A lesson from somebody who's built hardware that I'm sure you've now learned: make sure connectors can't plug into eachother unless they're supposed to. Even if they're different connectors, different keying, whatever, sometimes they can still be forced together.
sowbug 1 hour ago|||
This is good advice for robust design, but I swear, 9 times out of 10, you will be the one who keys it the wrong way during CAD layout.
abdullahkhalids 2 hours ago|||
I built a lot of Ikea last month. And I was just marveling how cleverly designed everything was so that it was quite difficult to put two wrong pieces together. Mostly, the only warnings in the manuals were to rotate a piece correctly.
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