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Posted by i7l 2 days ago

Child prodigies rarely become elite performers(www.economist.com)
https://archive.md/dhAJl
141 points | 150 commentspage 2
harry8 2 days ago|
Tiger woods. I can't think of any tennis player who has been in the top 100 for the past few decades who didn't commit to it totally as a young child. Start tennis at 10? Too old. Swimmers. Has anyone stumbled into sporting greatness from being outside the top 5%? Or 1% when they hit adulthood?

So what is being said? A huge amount of elite success is in the hardware, i.e. the body &/or brain. These go through rather large changes between ages 10 an 18. Puberty. This shakes up the ordering among those who showed enough promise to have already committed to becoming elite.

What am I missing here? Seems like this research is nothing more than "Kids change through puberty, the nature and sizes of the changes are a bit of a lottery for each kid." Much like the the genetic factors are also a lottery so you can't reliably predict who is going to be great from the results of their parents. (But if your parents are both 5ft, the NBA seems an unlikely destination for you).

beambot 2 days ago||
Definitely uncommon, but not unprecedented:

Hakeem Olajuwon - didn't start basketball until 15 or 16.

Kurt Warner - undrafted, returned to NFL at 28.

Francis Ngannou - started MMA at 26.

kevinmchugh 2 days ago|||
Dennis Rodman grew up overshadowed by his sisters' basketball skills, and then had some unheard of growth spurt of 8" after finishing high school. He hadn't even played much high school ball.
harry8 2 days ago||
Both Dennis Rodman and Hakeem Olajuwon are not 5ft, they are very tall and athletic. That combination is more important than basketball skill attained at 18 years of age. These attributes differs from tennis, or chess. Being elite at being both tall and athletic probably changes the most over puberty?
presentation 2 days ago||||
Basketball is probably not a great example since just being enormous gives you a huge chance of making it to the NBA, which I guess is just another form of being a prodigy.
gritspants 2 days ago||||
Sure, and if we keep going back in time to perhaps the greatest American athlete of all time, Jim Thorpe - he'd handily be beaten by elite high schoolers today.
benatkin 2 days ago|||
Basketball is a general purpose sport. The Claude of it can win. Some other sports such as gymnastics would need something more like the AlphaZero of it to win.
leksak 2 days ago|||
Both of these sports select for different type of body types - what do you mean? Gymnasts are shorter than the average population.
triceratops 1 day ago|||
> Basketball is a general purpose sport. The Claude of it can win.

There aren't too many pro-ballers shorter than 5'10" (177cm), and definitely no dominant ones.

If we're defining "general purpose sport" as a sport in which people of all shapes and sizes are able to achieve greatness, then I would say soccer or golf fit that definition better.

Men's soccer in the 2010s was dominated by 2 of the best players in history: Cristiano Ronaldo and Lionel Messi. There's a 7 inch height difference between the two. Ronaldo is powerful and muscled, Messi is lithe and graceful. Both played in approximately the same position on the field, in the same era. Both were brilliant.

kazinator 2 days ago|||
What is being said is not simply that people who engaged in a certain activity since childhood do not become top performing adults. Obviously that happens a lot. But rather that the top child or youth performers are not reliably the ones that turn into top adult performers.
harry8 2 days ago||
Let me express it another way.

Think of 5 relevant attributes of your body for playing something well.

Guesstimate where they were on the population bell curve when you were 10.

Guesstimate if these would have been on a different spot on the population bell curve for that attribute when you were an adult. Would you have guessed it when you wee 10? Would others have guessed it about you at that age?

Puberty changes you in unpredictable ways. Do we need a study to know that?

Everyone committing to tennis before they are 10 are elite, you wouldn't do it otherwise. Who is the best player of that elite set changes given the great puberty shake up.

g947o 2 days ago||
You missed the second word in the title, "prodigies".
benatkin 2 days ago||
That was covered just fine IMO. The reaction seems to be "so what?" I think that's a valid reaction. It's a long article to state something obvious, that the important thing about being on your way to greatness is having great talent and training to win starting at an early age, not winning before reaching a certain age.

I had an LLM first pick five figure skaters, and in the follow up query tell me which had wild success before age 12, and only two of the five fit that category, but each started learning at 6 years old or earlier. The other three seem like child prodigies in retrospect to me.

tsunamifury 2 days ago||
This is a tautology. Child prodigies that are identified often become academics who are railroaded into uselsss irrelevance.

Actual child prodigies like tiger woods or Justin Bieber who were genuinely insanely brilliant at a young age at non academic things went on to be wildly successful.

cyber_kinetist 1 day ago||
I think the reality is, if you're too smart than you're going to be easily disinterested in the things that you've been trained for during your entire childhood. Because, you're going to be bored of it eventually!

I remember an interview from current #1 chess grandmaster Magnus Carsen about why John Nunn never became World Champion because he is too intelligent:

> SPIEGEL: Mr Carlsen, what is your IQ?

> Carlsen: I have no idea. I wouldn’t want to know it anyway. It might turn out to be a nasty surprise.

> SPIEGEL: Why? You are 19 years old and ranked the number one chess player in the world. You must be incredibly clever.

> Carlsen: And that’s precisely what would be terrible. Of course it is important for a chess player to be able to concentrate well, but being too intelligent can also be a burden. It can get in your way. I am convinced that the reason the Englishman John Nunn never became world champion is that he is too intelligent for that.

> SPIEGEL: How that?

> Carlsen: At the age of 15, Nunn started studying mathematics in Oxford; he was the youngest student in the last 500 years, and at 23 he did a PhD in algebraic topology. He has so incredibly much in his head. Simply too much. His enormous powers of understanding and his constant thirst for knowledge distracted him from chess.

> SPIEGEL: Things are different in your case?

> Carlsen: Right. I am a totally normal guy. My father is considerably more intelligent than I am.

tsoukase 1 day ago||
Prodigy, even just above normal, children don't own the experience to handle their powers, besides the low motivation that is mentioned. They rarely form a valid, concrete plan to success and let themselves progress only in small steps. They make a few career mistakes early that kill their end result. And some non productive activity will absorb their powers and time (usually a low level job or some form of screen addiction)
opinologo 2 days ago||
https://archive.is/dhAJl
cpncrunch 2 days ago|
Unsafe archive site, as it's still DDoSing gyrovague.com. Don't use archive.is until they resolve it. (Not sure if it's really ever safe now, after this shitshow).
emmelaich 2 days ago|||
Bizarre.

https://gyrovague.com/2026/02/01/archive-today-is-directing-...

nicman23 2 days ago|||
what even is this rabbit hole
cpncrunch 1 day ago||
See the other comment in this thread. Very disturbing.
stevefan1999 2 days ago||
OTOH, https://www.newscientist.com/article/2509261-high-achieving-...
kqr 1 day ago||
Isn't this just Berkson's paradox? If you filter for either exceptional childhood or exceptional adulthood they will appear negatively correlated.
gwern 2 days ago||
Previously discussed (and criticized) at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46722853
pickleRick243 2 days ago|
Regardless of the basic conceptual point being made (merits of tiger parenting vs. holistic "participation trophy" style parenting), this research doesn't look that convincing.

There's the graphic: "Top 1% cognition aged 12 and top 5% salary mid-30s" which is supposed to be the most dramatic one. So apparently we suddenly just take at face value the criticism "if you're so smart, why aren't you rich"?

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