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Posted by nar001 4 hours ago

France's homegrown open source online office suite(github.com)
262 points | 137 commentspage 2
tjwebbnorfolk 1 hour ago|
This is a toy. It really makes it look like they aren't that serious.
halapro 1 hour ago|
It's typical of non-technical people to ask for "like Facebook, but x y z." They just don't know the magnitude of effort required behind these projects.
znort_ 1 hour ago||
bonjour, je suis clippy ...
ricardobeat 2 hours ago||
Why is Django so popular among open-source projects like these, especially government funded? I’ve never happened to see a commercial project use it in my twenty years in the field. Ruby/Go or even bun or node would be much more approachable and performant options today.
petcat 2 hours ago||
> I’ve never seen a commercial project use it in my twenty years in the field.

This is very surprising to me considering some of the largest sites in the world are built on Django. Instagram, Pinterest, for instance. Large parts of stripe and Robinhood are implemented with Django. Eventbrite, bitbucket. I believe even Sentry is.

All commercial products.

seabrookmx 1 hour ago|||
In Instagram's case, they do not use the ORM or Admin, and have an internal fork of the request handling/middleware stack that is 100% async (before the recent async bits were added to Django)[1].

It's great that Django's API design allowed them to move this way easily, but they aren't actually using Django in the traditional sense because it can't handle their scale.

I've found that with the Django ORM and DRF especially, it's very easy to create a poorly performing app by following the established patterns (N+1 queries being a huge problem created by DRF serializers). You need to be extremely diligent to create something performant in this ecosystem. Not every dev team has Armin Ronacher :P

Where I work we found this exhausting, and moved on to FastAPI and ASP.NET. We make our queries much more explicit using tools like Dapper, and now a senior engineer can have a much better idea how a particular route will perform just by reading the code (obviously, we still do some profiling).

[1]: https://djangochat.com/episodes/django-instagram-carl-meyer

megaman821 20 minutes ago||
It looks like the next release of Django will take seriious strides to solve a lot of the n+1 headaches, https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/releases/6.1/#model-fi....

Also, I doubt solving Instagram-level scale issues is on the top ten list of concerns for this project. Just getting something out there and gaining users is way more important than solving far future scaling issues.

macNchz 1 hour ago||||
Sentry is indeed, and is open source and self-hostable: https://github.com/getsentry/sentry

It’s a pretty large app (I think >1M lines of Python). I ran a self hosted version for several years and found it performant and pretty easy to keep running and updated.

hobofan 2 hours ago|||
> stripe

Stripe has always been a Ruby-heavy company.

mkl95 2 hours ago|||
Django must be more popular than Rails in the EU these days. Most Django devs have never used Go or Node and have never heard about Bun. Django is in the category of battle-tested frameworks that are very boring and easy to get things done with.
megaman821 2 hours ago|||
Does node or Go have a full-stack framework with any real usage? Those languages seem to have people that like piecing together libraries than using frameworks. Other languages all offer popular frameworks; Ruby on Rails, Java Spring, PHP Laravel, ASP.Net.
ricardobeat 1 hour ago||
The modern approach is to have a node-based fullstack framework like Next, SvelteKit or Astro, plus backend API services.

I’m afraid i am one of those people :)

megaman821 1 hour ago||
They are full-stack but not complete frameworks like the other. Where is the ORMs, authentication, form handling, etc? Will your bespoke choices hold up in 10 years?
LunaSea 1 hour ago|||
Bun is a very recent and thus unstable and immature project.

It has also been acquired by Anthropic recently.

Does not look like a great choice.

dingi 2 hours ago|||
Django is boring in a best possible way. Rather than spending six months setting up a bunch of microservices, you spend couple weeks on Django and ship a working product. Built in admin dashboard for example is a godsend at small scale.
js4ever 2 hours ago||
or now you spend couple of hours/days with AI and produce a Rust implementation that will smoke Django 100X
rockinghigh 2 hours ago||
Instagram uses it as their main backend. They have hundreds of million of daily users. Some of the critical backend services are in C++.
seabrookmx 1 hour ago||
Depends on your definition of "use." They use an internal async fork, and don't use the ORM: https://djangochat.com/episodes/django-instagram-carl-meyer
jmclnx 3 hours ago||
Very nice.

You (at least I) would not think of France as having a good Open Source presence, but they do. Over the years I have heard of many good Open Source Projects coming out of France.

I sometimes wonder if it is because of French vs English Language were you hardly hear of their projects in English speaking Countries.

astrolx 3 hours ago||
I think an unsung hero in making open source broadly known and adopted in France is Framasoft [https://framasoft.org/en/], a non-profit association. They have since many many years an initiative to de-google internet and provide free and hosted alternatives and resources.
BiteCode_dev 3 hours ago||
+1 on this, they had an amazing presence in the French community for 20 years and many of us own them our passion for FOSS.
bsenftner 3 hours ago|||
The French have amazing technologists, I worked with many stunningly brilliant French men and women across 3D gaming, film and media production. However, culturally they end up in a little "French pod" when not working in France because they know how to and really enjoy vigorous debate. If one cannot hold their own in their free wheeling intellectualized conversation and debate style, one might end up feeling insulted and stop hanging out with the frogs. There also seems to be a deep cultural understanding of design that is not present in people, generally, from other nations. That creates some interesting perspectives in software interactive design.
guerrilla 1 hour ago|||
> You (at least I) would not think of France as having a good Open Source presence

France has always been super heavy on open source. They even used to host Les Trophées du Libre, international open-source software competition. FramaSoft (i.e. PeerTube) and VLC are also French.

akdev1l 3 hours ago|||
Isn’t VLC French also?
jodrellblank 3 hours ago||
OCaml and early Prolog are from France:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OCaml

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alain_Colmerauer

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Institute_for_Research_... (INRIA)

Galanwe 3 hours ago||
Also QEmu and ffmpeg.

Also Docker.

Also Lichess.

Also Scikit Learn.

caned 3 hours ago|||
Two words: Fabrice Bellard
tokai 21 minutes ago||
>would not think of France as having a good Open Source presence

You have not been paying attention.

bsenftner 3 hours ago||
I would not be surprised if American PACs adopted this out of concern that US based office suites are politically compromised.
ChrisArchitect 1 hour ago||
Another one?

Previously:

This week: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46873294

2 weeks ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46767668

sylware 2 hours ago||
Of course, it is not forcing to use any whatng cartel web engines namely has noscript/basic (x)html interop support (aka classic web) and/or with public and as simple as possible network protocols anyone can implement a rich GUI client for.

Of course its SDK has components choosen with care to maximize alternative (present and future) availability and its code is not stored on microsoft github.com.

Cynnabar 4 hours ago||
[flagged]
nixass 3 hours ago||
Somewhat related, more overall context

France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46873294

nar001 3 hours ago||
Exactly what it says on the tin, France's gov made an office suite, online based, and video calling as an alternative/sovereign version of GSuite/Office 365
ginko 3 hours ago|
What's the value of it being online? Surely being able to run it as a native application would be preferable?
LunaSea 3 hours ago||
It means that it is de-facto compatible with all operating systems.

Also means that the tooling to make collaborative work in this suite possible already exists because it's a common use case on the web and less so on native software (see Microsoft Office vs. Microsoft 365 online).

mimasama 2 hours ago||
Sure, "all" operating systems. "All" that is OSes that have a web browser built for it that at least supports [TransformStream](https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/TransformSt...)... And the browser and spec written and maintained mostly by people outside of France. Kinda compromises the point of being "sovereign" doesn't it?
touisteur 1 hour ago||
Forking Firefox whenever the rug is pulled seems doable (with elbow grease), and in the meantime Europeans can invest on problems that don't have an already mature fully open-source solution.
vman81 3 hours ago|||
Managing documents on the back end can be very sensible, depending on your work context. Not having to deal with installations is also a real advantage in a heterogeneous environment with a mix of US-controlled operating systems and unencumbered OSes. It also makes migration between them easier, since you only need a common browser to be supported.
ddulaney 3 hours ago|||
There are definitely some benefits! Installation and updates become trivial. Also, collaboration is generally easier, because all you have to do is send a link.

These are the same reasons Google Docs took off, and they are real advantages.

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