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Posted by thatha7777 10 hours ago

Major European payment processor can't send email to Google Workspace users(atha.io)
402 points | 270 commentspage 2
juancn 8 hours ago|
If that's how they handle email, I wouldn't want to see what they do with payment data.
warkdarrior 1 hour ago|
"For simplicity, we support recipient account IDs in the range 1-10. Anything else gets silently ignored."
amelius 2 hours ago||
That will teach those pesky Europeans not to start their own payment processors.
DaOne256 9 hours ago||
Maybe that's something to report to the "European System of Financial Supervision" or some other EU government agency.

They even have a Whistleblowing link at the bottom of their website: https://www.bankingsupervision.europa.eu/about/esfs/html/ind...

dathinab 13 minutes ago|
no, please read the article

they forgot to include a message-id

something the RFC standard recommend but doesn't require

but it being required is a de-facto industry standard for sending automated mails

and is clearly documented by support sides of large mail providers (like Google)

the mail standards only defines what parts you can put together, but widely fail to define how this parts can be interpreted, what are sensible combinations, etc.

and they don't cover spam/suspicious mail detection at all

so you can't just go by RFC, you need to read up on what all larger mail providers have as additional requirements (which mostly are the same, and Message-Id being the most common dominator) and then hope that another provider you didn't read up one doesn't have some other surprising rule (which doesn't tent to be the case if you don't do anything surprising, but it sucks anyway).

looperhacks 5 hours ago||
> This experience fits a pattern I keep running into with European business-facing APIs and services. Something is always a little bit broken. Documentation is incomplete, or packaged as a nasty PDF, edge cases are unhandled, error messages are misleading, and when you report issues, the support team doesn't have the technical depth to understand what you're telling them.

I can definitely confirm that this is a common thing. But I think this is a "small org"-problem more than a "European business"-problem. Apparently, the company has somewhere between 500 and 1000 employees (I couldn't find good data, sadly). With a size like this, the "support" is probably outsourced (meaning they don't know anything), there are maybe 100 engineers (probably less) and the mailing is either done via a third-party or set up by an Admin that left three years ago.

Without any basis, I will speculate that you will notice this more in Europe because there is simply no company at the size of Stripe or similar.

bojan 5 hours ago|
While there is some truth in while you saying, I have to say that from my European perspective all the big American companies feel enormously bloated. For example, I've recently learned thats Atlassian has 13000 employees, and I have to ask myself, what do all those people do?
TheAceOfHearts 5 hours ago|||
A minor correction, but Atlassian was founded in Australia, and their global headquarters is still in Australia.
warkdarrior 1 hour ago|||
I bet Atlassian's email notifications never bounced.
wolvoleo 7 hours ago||
Huh I've lived in Europe for most of my life and I've never heard of viva except as a poor name choice for Microsoft's corporate Facebook (yammer)

Most companies here use stripe on their website.

amarcheschi 6 hours ago|
it's a greek company, if you buy from greek websites i guess you'll deal with it

i'm not greek but a greek ecommerce i buy from uses viva

nashashmi 9 hours ago||
10 percent of the effort in building software compatibility with open source file specifications is dealing with knowing the specifications. 90 percent of the effort is dealing with errors in generated files by less worthy software programs.

The RSS spec is one way. RSS readers do a fine job of interpreting files done the right way. Publishers don’t always do a good job with publishing error free RSS files. So RSS readers devs have to anticipate all sorts of errors and conduct error handling to ensure RSS items are properly handled.

This is why companies want to keep their file format proprietary. Other devs can really do damage to the ecosystem and ruin the experience

EvanAnderson 8 hours ago||
My personal fork of ttrss, from 2005, is a dodgy patchwork of fixes for badly formatted RSS. I can't imagine trying to host a service that deals with RSS feeds from random sites at scale.
tracker1 8 hours ago||
One that always irks me to no end, is every time I see someone ham fisting csv handling by hand instead of using an established, well-sourced library. They almost always fail at commas or newlines in quoted text... It's one of the more annoying things.

Currently working on replacing a couple decades old system, and my csv output is using a library that isn't quoting all the strings that don't require quotes... so I'm forced to do it (for compatibility) with the other system this csv is going to. (sigh).

mamiride 2 hours ago||
Mamiride dot com email verifications are not delivered to Gmail from a self-hosted mail server and I wonder if this is the reason. We got around this by making email verification an optional step instead of mandatory.
pmontra 6 hours ago||
If a business like that doesn't get its emails delivered, it will slowly go out of business. Merchants will find another processor that is able to deliver emails to every inbox. That is, Google could be less picky, but the company with a problem at hand is Viva.
j1elo 5 hours ago||
> For viva.com's engineering team, in case this reaches you: [...]

That's too kind of you, but on the other hand it really doesn't solve the issue of bad priorities and lack of overall Quality. Some engineer might log a couple hours fixing a Level 3 severity bug, emails will start working better, but the poor (or at the least, dubious) backwards technical stewardship (or lack of it) will keep going on inside the company, unnoticed from outside (until something bad eventually happens to some client)

flerchin 9 hours ago|
The specific bug is annoying, but that there's no way to report such a thing is an exact hallmark of our current corposphere.
newsoftheday 8 hours ago||
Google's Postmaster Tools site has a "Report deliverabilty issue" link at the bottom left navigation column.

https://postmaster.google.com/v2/sender_compliance

dathinab 1 minute ago|||
it isn't a google bug

Message-Id being required for automated mails is a de-facto industry standard

while the consequence differ it missing will also make it much more likely for most other large mail providers to reject your mail or classify it as spam.

It's also well known. Pretty much viva engineers fucked up doing proper research.

Now to be fair:

- it sucks that you can't just implement the RFC(s)

- the standards suck, docent of different RFCs overlapping and replacing each other and referencing often older versions of other RFCs, with docents of ways to do the same things of which only some can be used reliable in practice and a common gaps in the standards about edge cases or about the "higher level semantics" of constructs.

- so overall mail seems very simple at first but if you want to automated send mails reliable internationally it's a total pain and Message-Id is just the head of the iceberg

stonogo 5 hours ago|||
Which is, of course, hidden behind a login wall
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