Top
Best
New

Posted by kevinak 20 hours ago

Living human brain cells play DOOM on a CL1 [video](www.youtube.com)
190 points | 190 commentspage 2
fsmv 19 hours ago|
I'm having trouble understanding to what extent the machine learning used for interfacing with the neurons is doing the learning
thezipcreator 17 hours ago||
what's with people inventing new torment nexuses every few weeks? could you people just chill, please?
0x1ceb00da 3 hours ago||
Have they tried pluggin in chimp/pig/worm neurons to see how well they perform?
wek 10 hours ago||
I've searched and can't find a technical paper on this. Has one been released? This is very problematic.
lateforwork 10 hours ago|
These are lab-grown biological neurons. Why are they any more problematic than Nvidia's silicon neurons?
konaraddi 8 hours ago||
Speaking for myself : it's a bit creepy and unsettling. Using brain cells is probably inching closer to consciousness than today's silicon is, and consciousness isn't well understood so I'd fear this line of research could eventually lead to the "I have no mouth and I must scream" the other commenter referenced. Many decades from now we might be wondering how much of a human brain needs to be grown in a lab before it's considered unethical.
mangatmodi 1 hour ago||
SCI-FI has always featured sentient AI, and now we might be heading toward actually synthesizing brains. This feels dystopian.

PS: It's still very cool but also scary.

wonger156 18 hours ago||
Hard to tell If the neurons actually learned to play doom or if its just the decoder that learned from the neuron responses. The disease modeling for this system is a very cool usecase though.
dustfinger 19 hours ago||
> We’ve combined lab-grown neurons with silicon chips and made it available to anyone, for first time ever.

There is a line somewhere here that I personally feel we should not cross.

virgildotcodes 19 hours ago||
100%

We know that neurons can produce subjective experience.

This is the first time in my life that I've felt a scientific avenue of research should shut down.

blizdiddy 19 hours ago|||
Animal testing, weapons testing, medical trials, cloning, psychological experiments… had you just never considered them before? Why this?
ryeights 18 hours ago|||
Those things all exist within our conscious realm. “Human brain cells in a vat used for computation” suggests horrors beyond understanding
thierrydamiba 19 hours ago||||
Same reason people get scared to fly but drive everyday. Humans are simultaneously wildly irrational and terrible at calculating risk.
NegativeLatency 18 hours ago||||
This is somewhat novel unlike say weapons manufacturing. Also assuming that the GP is in the tech community to some degree, it makes sense they’d have a stronger reaction.

There’s lots of bad stuff humans shouldn’t be doing.

api 19 hours ago|||
Not sure why this is being downvoted. It’s a valid point. This neuron chip stuff is far less problematic than a lot of animal testing where you clearly have a whole organism that experiences something.

Factory farming too. The way we treat chickens in particular is out of a horror movie, and that’s in countries with some standards. Globally I’m sure many billions of animals are constantly submitted to the most grotesque torture for food.

vixen99 19 hours ago||||
At the very very least there are more productive ways of spending time.
namero999 19 hours ago||||
We don't really know that.
bogwog 19 hours ago|||
Sounds like you're applying scifi tropes to real life. Don't do that. That's why some people are developing "AI psychosis" today after playing with LLMs.
everforward 18 hours ago|||
The fear is that we don’t really understand what causes consciousness. I think that’s a valid fear, because we can’t know ahead of time whether we will inadvertently create a “person” inside the machine.

Unless your proposition is that no collection of human neurons outside of live birth can become sentient, and I’m not sure how you’d arrive at that conclusion without invoking some kind of spiritual argument.

newsy-combi 18 hours ago|||
You're equivocating two totally separate things
ZunarJ5 19 hours ago|||
To be a fly on the wall in that ethics committee meeting...
exe34 19 hours ago|||
I have no mouth and I must scream.
wigster 19 hours ago|||
it is a terrifying thought.
DetroitThrow 18 hours ago||||
We grew a brain on a petri dish, gave it a shotgun, and sent it to hell.

Next up, we teach it to speed run Getting Over It. What a horrible existence.

throwaway613746 18 hours ago|||
[dead]
doug_durham 18 hours ago||
I’m confused by this statement. A neuron is a machine. A silicon chip computer is a machine. All they have done is interfaced two machines.
birdsongs 18 hours ago||
This is naive or in bad faith.

Sure, a neuron is a machine.

200,000 neurons connected in a matrix is a brain, albeit a very primitive one. Ants have 250,000 neurons in their brains.

doug_durham 13 hours ago||
How is it naive? You admit that an individual neuron is a machine. 200k neurons in a petri dish isn't a brain. I'm not the naive one here.
oliveiracwb 9 hours ago||
This sounded strange to me when I heard about embryonic research on this back in 2015, which even started the legal paving in this regard.

Me? I didn't like the idea (then or now), but it would be demagogic to try to fight against it, with so much wrong already existing. The difference between a neuron and a nanostructure is merely the embedded technology.

Back in the 50s and 60s, guided rockets used pigeons. Laika in space. Chimpanzees in orbit. Let's accept that we will have bio-drones and Jonny-Mneumonic style upload interfaces.

falsaberN1 9 hours ago||
Hot take here, but I think the version of this experiment that used rat neurons instead of human neurons was more interesting. I can't look for the link right now but there's a video on Youtube, the equipment and techniques are fairly similar.

We know a human can play Doom, so it kind of makes sense a portion of a human brain can do so in some fashion. But it's way more interesting when an animal that normally doesn't play Doom can, specially if it's just a portion of its brain.

Outside of that, I'm personally not very fond of hardware that can rot or die from malnutrition though. It's fun as an experiment, but as a thing you can actually use I just don't see it. It has a literal limited lifespan, requires more maintenance and imagine trying to debug it ("Turns out it caught some bacteria and it's malfunctioning" kinda scenarios? No thanks.)

adrianN 9 hours ago|
I imagine the point is not replacing hardware with neurons, but improving our ability to understand in vivo brains.
zeronight 16 hours ago|
The part I can't get past, where would you source live human brain cells?

Does anyone have insight into how you would even start to source or grow/create the cells?

Also the machines look very organic and clearly have to keep the cells alive. Do they have to change them out every so often?

drzaiusx11 15 hours ago||
There's a number of "immortal" human cell lines dating back to as far as the 1950s (you may have heard of Henrietta Lacks? [1] and the immortal HeLa cell line).

Today there are several immortalized neuron cell lines used in research to model neuronal function, like HeLa but of neuron type obviously, that are also typically derived from tumours (e.g., SH-SY5Y, PC12) or immortalized via genetic modification (e.g., v-myc) like CTX0E03 [2] which was designed to allow for continuous growth in the presence of particular reagents.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henrietta_Lacks

2. https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/reneuron-announces-...

Aerroon 15 hours ago||
This definitely helped with my disgust reaction.
drzaiusx11 15 hours ago||
Besides not getting consent in the case of HeLa, which part do you find problematic? Cancerous cell's ability to self-clone/grow is as much a feature as it is a bug in this particular use case.

I ask as someone who's has personally experienced loss of several loved ones from cancer (as most people my age probably have), but doesn't share your aversion to this particular use case (research.)

Aerroon 15 hours ago||
I meant that the original article evoked disgust, but finding out that they're cancer cells muted that a bit.
drzaiusx11 14 hours ago||
Yeah I do feel the OA is being overly flippant with their use of human cells here, likely for PR sake, which would be an ethical breach for me personally. Overall though, I find most research cases for human cell lines to be in line with my personal ethics. Neuron lines can certainly be used for good or ill, and this case leans towards the latter, although understanding the human brain may justify this line of work in the long term. If only we didn't live in a militaristic late stage capitalist society...
fenykep 15 hours ago|||
I think the Thought Emporium youtube channel has some explanatory [videos](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEXefdbQDjw) of the whole process. I couldn't wrap my head around the thing tho.
hessart 8 hours ago|||
ahem

If you're in the US, you can buy human neurons online at sciencellonline.com/en/human-neurons/

lateforwork 9 hours ago||
They are lab grown.
More comments...