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Posted by souvlakee 15 hours ago

Kotlin creator's new language: talk to LLMs in specs, not English(codespeak.dev)
279 points | 243 commentspage 8
tamimio 13 hours ago|
As someone who hates writing (and thus coding) this might be a good tool, but how’s is it different from doing the same in claude? And I only see python, what about other languages, are they also production grade?
kittikitti 14 hours ago||
The intent of the idea is there, and I agree that there should be more precise syntax instead of colloquial English. However, it's difficult to take CodeSpeak seriously as it looks AI generated and misses key background knowledge.

I'm hoping for a framework that expands upon Behavior Driven Development (BDD) or a similar project-management concept. Here's a promising example that is ripe for an Agentic AI implementation, https://behave.readthedocs.io/en/stable/philosophy/#the-gher...

whalesalad 14 hours ago||
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literate_programming
theoriginaldave 14 hours ago||
I for one can't wait to be a confident CodeSpeak programmer /sarc

Does this make it a 6th generation language?

petetnt 11 hours ago||
Buddy invented RobotFramework, great job.
modernerd 7 hours ago||
So it has "two-way conversion":

`codespeak build` — takes the spec and turns it into code via LLM, like a non-deterministic compiler.

`codespeak takeover` — reads a file and creates a spec from it.

You can progressively opt in ("mixed mode") so it only touches files you allow it to (and makes new ones if needed).

Pros:

- Formalised version of the "agentic engineering" many are already doing, but might actually get people to store their specs and decisions in a concise way that seems more sane than committing your entire meandering chat session.

- Encouraging people to review spec and code side-by-side at a file level seems reasonable. Could even build an IDE/plugin around that concept to auto-load/navigate the spec and code side-by-side like their examples: https://codespeak.dev/shrink-factor/markitdown-eml. If tokens per second for popular models continues to improve, could even update the spec by hand and see the code regenerate live on the fly, perhaps via `codespeak watch`.

- Reduces the code you have to write by 5-10x. Largely by convincing you not to write it any more. Our graphics cards write the code for us in this timeline and many people are even happy about it.

- As models improve, could optionally re-run `build` against the same original spec. (Why do that if the output already produces the intended result and the test suite still passes? Presumably for simpler code. Or faster output. Or lower memory use. Or simply _different_ bugs.)

- Moves programming back toward structured thinking backed by a committed artifact and a solid two-word command you can run, instead of actively having conversations with far away GPUs like that's normal now.

- Could theoretically swap out the build target language if you grow to trust the build process to be your babelfish/specfish. Kind of Haxe with Markdown.

Cons:

- Seems to be gated by their login, can't bring your own model?

- Suspect the labs can all clone this concept very easily. `claude build` and `claude spec`?

The idea of a non-deterministic 'build' command had me cringing at first. But formalising a process many are using anyway that currently feels pretty sloppy perhaps isn't so terrible.

If nothing else, writing `build` is a lot quicker and maintains a whisker of self-respect. At least compared to typing, "please take this spec and adapt the Python accordingly" followed 2 minutes later by, "I updated the spec to deal with the edge-case you missed, try again but don't miss anything this time".

yellow_lead 13 hours ago||
So, just a markdown file?
vybandz 9 hours ago||
Sounds like crap.
phplovesong 12 hours ago||
This is pretty lame. I WANT to write code, something that has a formal definition and express my ideas in THAT, not some adhoc pseudo english an LLM then puts the cowboy hat on and does what the hotness of the week is.

Programming is in the end math, the model is defined and, when done correctly follows common laws.

kleiba 14 hours ago|
I cannot read light on black. I don't know, maybe it's a condition, or simply just part of getting old. But my eyes physically hurt, and when I look up from reading a light-on-black screen, even when I looked at only for a short moment, my eyes need seconds to adjust again.

I know dark mode is really popular with the youngens but I regularly have to reach for reader mode for dark web pages, or else I simply cannot stand reading the contents.

Unfortunately, this site does not have an obvious way of reading it black-on-white, short of looking at the HTML source (CTRL+U), which - in fact - I sometimes do.

jbritton 9 hours ago||
I find dark mode much easier to read and far less eye strain. I guess it just shows that users should be the ones to set the preference. There are studies on monkeys showing light mode leading to myopia. Although lately I have come to learn there are lots of poorly done studies.
newsoftheday 13 hours ago|||
Same for me, has been my whole life. I complain about it all the time. It's well documented that people can read black on light far better and with less eye strain than light on black; yet there seems to be a whole generation of developers determined to force us all to try and read it. Even the media sites like Netflix, Prime, etc. force it. At least Tubi's is somewhat more readable.

Sometimes a site will include a button or other UI element to choose a light theme but I find it odd that so many sites which are presumed to be designed by technically competent people, completely ignore accessibility concerns.

DoctorOW 10 hours ago||
The most common mistake I see (on this website at least) is the assumption that one's programming competence is equal to their competence in other things.
cambrianentropy 11 hours ago|||
Yeah I am the same.

Definitely in the minority on this one as dark mode is really popular these days.

Really hard to describe how it is literally physically painful for my eyes. Very strange.

embedding-shape 13 hours ago|||
Do you sit in a bright room? Right now, during the night, I see your comment like this: https://i.imgur.com/c7fmBns.png, but during the day when the room is bright, I also see everything with light themes/background colors, otherwise it is indeed hard to see properly.
kleiba 13 hours ago|||
Unfortunately, in my case, it's not a matter of lighting conditions.
skydhash 12 hours ago|||
When it’s dark (I can’t stand bright rooms at night), I lower the brightness of my screens instead of going for dark mode. I have astigmatism and any tiny bright spot is hard to focus on. It’s easier when the bright part is large and the dark parts are small (black on white is best).
lainproliant 11 hours ago||
I feel your pain. For me it is the opposite: I get headaches from bright backgrounds because I'm light-sensitive.
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