Top
Best
New

Posted by surprisetalk 2 hours ago

How to Not Pay Your Taxes(taylor.town)
84 points | 68 comments
codemog 23 minutes ago|
> If you aren't actually reinvesting capital, pay your damn taxes. Don't be an asshole.

Why? So my government has more missiles to blow up children? No thanks.

mcmcmc 9 minutes ago||
[delayed]
tootie 13 minutes ago||
Most tax money goes to social programs. Especially at the state and local level.
jeffreyrogers 1 hour ago||
Pretty good overview of how/why these deductions reduce your taxable income. Couple of things to note.

Depreciation is recaptured if you sell an asset for more than its depreciated basis. People sometimes get into trouble with this if they rapidly depreciate real estate and then sell it. Even if you sell for less than your purchase price it is possible to owe taxes.

You also aren't going to be able to pay no taxes since you do need to realize some income to pay for mortgage/rent, food, transportation, etc. I guess if you had assets you could borrow against it would be possible to pay for these using the loan proceeds (which are not taxable).

gautamcgoel 46 minutes ago|
The thing I don't understand with these loan arguments is: don't you eventually need to pay taxes in the income you use to repay the loan? It seems to me that folks who take out such loans are just kicking the can down the road.
throwaway667555 26 minutes ago|||
When the cash flow from the assets exceeds interest expense, you've cashed out the assets without incurring tax on your appreciated position and you can afford to pay the interest. As for principal, debt is largely not paid back these days, especially large bespoke debt secured by liquid and well-defined assets. The debt holders (lenders) get paid back after death of the borrower or they continue rolling the position and collecting their return (interest income). The only question in the lender's mind is how much leverage to grant on the underlying assets, e.g. blue chip stocks, and what to do in a liquidity crunch when rolling.
gamerdonkey 36 minutes ago||||
The strategy is called "Buy, Borrow, Die"

https://www.theatlantic.com/economy/archive/2025/03/tax-loop... (viewable by disabling JS)

xienze 11 minutes ago||
What if I live for, say, decades before dying. Surely the lender expects some some amount of repayment before then.
claythearc 31 minutes ago||||
There are a bunch of strategies here, but one people oft repeat is the "buy, borrow, die" approach. Where, they are kicking the can down the road, but the magic happens at the die step. When the borrower dies:

Your heirs inherit your stocks, with their cost basis reset to the current price. This means that they have zero appreciation of your purchase of $RIVN at $67, despite it being at $420. They can then sell the shares, to pay the loans, and not owe capital gains, because there are no gains. Additionally, at this step cash can be extracted for no gains as well if desired.

So you avoid taxes while alive by taking loans (not income), avoiding capital gains (never selling), and then gains evaporate through a stepped up basis. There are some exceptions here - estate taxes, etc with ways around them like trusts, but this is the general mechanism.

Its worth noting though, that its not ironclad. In a significant downturn you can be forced to liquidate and it will hurt (see the news on Musk right after X purchase). Additionally, while people talk about this as being super popular, realize that in practice people who take advantage of these strategies also still have millions in cash flow, so its not a true borrow only $0 tax lifestyle, they will use already taxed money to manage them as well.

jeffreyrogers 24 minutes ago|||
Minor nitpick. The step up in basis actually happens when you die (not when your heirs receive the assets), and your estate has to pay off creditors before distributing assets. So the debt is paid off first, then your heirs get whatever is left over. Net result is the same though.
avemg 24 minutes ago|||
I'm familiar with this strategy but there's one thing about it that I don't understand: After death, the loans are an estate liability, right? Doesn't the estate need to be settled before heirs get their inheritance? If i had an outstanding $1MM loan, wouldn't the estate need to liquidate some of that $RIVN at the $67 basis in order to pay the loan? and then whatever $RIVN was left over would go to the heirs at a stepped-up basis?
claythearc 16 minutes ago|||
I conflated the two, since it all happens pretty quickly, but the estate is actually the recipient of the updated basis. So the estate sells @ current price, pays the negligible difference on gains from appreciation while the estate settles, if any happened, and then passes out the rest.
jeffreyrogers 23 minutes ago|||
The step up in basis happens when you die, so the estate has no capital gain. Then the debts are paid, then the heirs get whatever they're supposed to get.
avemg 17 minutes ago||
Ok thank you. That was the key to my misunderstanding.
jeffreyrogers 39 minutes ago||||
You do. I think these loans are generally used for short term liquidity. For example if you want to buy a new house before selling your old one. You'd get a loan against your assets, buy the home with the loan proceeds, sell your old home and pay off the loan.

If your assets are growing faster than the interest it would also be possible to payoff the loan with a new (larger) loan, so you are still kicking the can down the road but eventually you would die and never need to pay the taxes while you were alive. I doubt this is done that often in practice, but who knows.

OkayPhysicist 39 minutes ago||||
As mentioned in the article, death (and subsequent inheritance), solves this problem. Once you're dead, your tax situation changes significantly, and selling your assets to settle your debts is subject to estate taxes, not capital gains.
whaleofatw2022 37 minutes ago||||
Sometimes its about the layers.

I.e. what kinds of loans can be tax deductible? To be clear theres decent effort into this, you can't just do a cash-out refi on a home, but loopholes exist for those who find it worth the effort.

anon291 34 minutes ago||||
A margin loan typically does not require any payments at all other than interest. Many loans are like this. Amortization for principal repayment is usually something you only find in personal or real estate loans
nout 38 minutes ago|||
You repay with another loan. Repeat multiple times. And then you die.

This is the strategy that people follow.

hirako2000 1 hour ago||
I'm not sure to understand how deferring taxes is a better deal than paying it here and now.

Since I'm not a financial adviser, someone asked me take on which 4k projector to buy last Xmas.

I explained that the tech has improved so much lately, they've become somewhat affordable, I recommended a model and pointed ou that he would certainly get a better device next Xmas, for half the price. I thought he would follow suit given his budget was a bit below the retail price. That would just wait.

His response was he would rather go ahead and up the budget a few hundred dollars to get it right away. That projectors will surely get much better by next year, but that he, certainly, will not.

singron 1 hour ago||
Deferring taxes is essentially an interest-free loan from the government to you. You can take that money, invest it, and then keep most of the earnings when you eventually pay the taxes.

There are also some loopholes where capital gains taxes deferred until after death just don't get paid at all. This is the "step-up basis" where your inheritors get to reset the basis of capital assets and neither you nor they has to pay taxes on the capital gain.

phkahler 42 minutes ago|||
This is what they call "buy borrow die" or some such. Buy an asset, borrow against it, die to reset the basis. Your estate will still have to repay the loans, but... that one part I don't really understand. Do they just refinance, taking a new loan against the newly valued asset?

This all seems to benefit from low interest rates. Was it a thing in the 90's? Or even the 80s when rates were much higher?

dsizzle 1 hour ago|||
Yes, and when you do pay it's a lower "real" tax (due to inflation)
some_random 34 minutes ago|||
This is touched on briefly, the number one reason is that if you can keep deferring your taxes indefinitely then you never have to pay them. Your tax burden is wiped away on death so not only does it not matter to you but your heirs won't be affected either.
vidarh 47 minutes ago|||
In addition to the other reasons given: Sometimes it also makes sense if your income is lumpy and you e.g. expect to have years where your income will fall into a lower tax band. It then can pay to suddenly recognise more income to take out as much as you can within the lower band.
paxys 1 hour ago|||
Not sure I understand your example. If you always wait for the new version of a product to release the following year then you are never going to buy anything.
numbers 59 minutes ago||
but you'd wait only long enough for a version that's good enough, not forever.
encoderer 1 hour ago|||
Because of cost basis step up at death, you can just defer forever.
anon291 55 minutes ago|||
Suppose I defer $1 million in taxes until after I'm dead, and my estate conveniently does not have $1 million in assets left. What happens?

In the meantime, I gave all the assets to my children while I was alive

The answer is nothing. The government eats the loss.

brcmthrowaway 1 hour ago||
The projector prices are a scam except for Christie and Barco
davidfekke 48 minutes ago||
Is this advice from Wesley Snipes?
simonreiff 47 minutes ago|
Haha that made me laugh
3rodents 28 minutes ago||
How to Not Pay Any Taxes: don’t be American.

Living tax free is easy enough for everyone except Americans.

unclad5968 21 minutes ago|
Where are you living that you don't have to pay taxes?
3rodents 18 minutes ago||
That’s the trick. Don’t live anywhere. Every other country taxes based on residency rather than citizenship. If you’re not a U.S. citizen you can just wander around the world living tax free regardless of your income. Don’t stay anywhere long enough to become a tax resident.
SoftTalker 29 minutes ago||
It seems to me that I'm running into more people who just don't file their taxes. They wait for the IRS to send them a letter saying how much they owe, and they just pay that.

I can't figure out the thought process of someone who finds this sensible. Maybe there isn't one.

jaxefayo 24 minutes ago||
I’ve never heard of anyone doing this, but now I kind of wish everyone did. Maybe it would force the IRS to just give us a bill instead of having us try our best to calculate what we owe, submitting that, and then hoping that we don’t get an angry letter when the IRS calculates it themselves and their answer doesn’t jive with ours.
lb1lf 20 minutes ago|||
I guess the accuracy of such solutions vary by jurisdiction; I just received my tax return for 2025 in Norway.

The sum owed I had calculated at the end of 2025 was less than 2% off from the sum our IRS equivalent came up with.

Their sum was the most favorable to me, though - they had adjusted a deduction I qualified for last year which I had missed.

This level of accuracy is down to our IRS knowing just about all there is to know about our income, assets, debts &c of course - oh, and on there being fewer loopholes in our tax code...

celeritascelery 22 minutes ago|||
That seems like a terrible idea. A good tax accountant will help you find ways to lower tax burden and save money. The IRS has no such incentive, and will probably just tax you at the standard rates for your gross income.
something765478 22 minutes ago||
Well, frankly, that's exactly how it should work.
dleslie 52 minutes ago||
That's a great deal more complicated than our TFSA and RSP programmes, here in Canada.
munk-a 35 minutes ago|
RRSP first time home buyer credits can get a bit complicated though. Also, a fun fact - dual US-Canadian citizens can't (effectively) use TFSAs because the US considers appreciation in a TFSA to be taxable income.
fredgrott 11 minutes ago||
Funny thing, states like CA, TX, TN going after folks who thought it good idea to register vehicles in MN and not pay their own local state sales taxes...

Please consult a real tax lawyer before even following such advice...

Why? They have skin in the game such losing their license if they do something wrong and illegal...

oxqbldpxo 26 minutes ago||
It is a good thing for life, money and health, to be clear how much is enough. In money frugality always wins. These billionaires they're very miserable. Their faces show stress, worry and animosity. People say money does bring happiness. It is BS. It holds true only if there is health.
kg 1 hour ago|
> Defer US taxes by reinvesting your taxable income into the economy as business expenses, depreciating assets, etc.

Be really careful when doing this. Make sure you have a great accountant - if you go more than a few years without turning a measurable profit, your risk of being audited apparently goes up. My accountant personally cautioned me about this since my business has been in an R&D phase for 5 years so we've been showing a small loss every year. The last thing you want is for the IRS to decide you've been cheating on your taxes.

bombcar 1 hour ago||
This is true for most businesses (they will reclassify it as a "hobby" where expenses aren't deductible, though you can fight that in tax court or real court if you want to) - but for rental properties you can go for decades with no profits (because of depreciation).
jt2190 1 hour ago|||
Can you elaborate? As a business owner in the U.S. I can opt to reinvest all revenue back into the business, thus would show zero net profit but (presumably) increase my company’s value. (And remember there are other taxes and fees paid to various governments, not just tax on income/profit, so it’s not typically like nothing gets paid.)
jeffreyrogers 1 hour ago|||
You can't reclassify profit as reinvestment to show zero net profit. (If you could every business would have an internal hedge fund or private equity business and would show zero net profit).
bombcar 1 hour ago||||
https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/know-the-difference-between-a-h...
SilasX 1 hour ago||||
>As a business owner in the U.S. I can opt to reinvest all revenue back into the business,

Not entirely, no. Any of those reinvestments that count as capital expenditures aren't immediately deductible, but only on a throttled schedule, which is why the concept of depreciation exists in tax law:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15061439

anon291 53 minutes ago|||
As a business owner, if you provide labor to the business, you have to pay yourself a salary.
bluGill 43 minutes ago||
This is why many people make minimun wage - they get a salary but they use the business profits to live on. See your accountant for all the fine print before doing this.
xikrib 1 hour ago||
The point is creating failed businesses is legal and tax deductible.
More comments...