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Posted by felineflock 8 hours ago

HP trialed mandatory 15-minute support call wait times (2025)(arstechnica.com)
264 points | 176 commentspage 2
jefftrebben 3 hours ago|
The irony is that mandatory wait times are a form of monitoring failure. If you measured customer satisfaction with the same rigor you measure server uptime, you'd catch this immediately.

Most companies monitor their infrastructure religiously but treat their support experience as a black box. The fix is the same in both cases: measure the thing that matters (time to resolution, not tickets closed), alert when it degrades, and make the alert impossible to ignore.

ryukoposting 6 hours ago||
My first thought was "wow, those assholes."

But my second thought was... how did they make their PBX do that? Is this actually a feature that PBX vendors ship?

tiagod 4 hours ago||
Many call centers have these privacy messages that play before you're actually put on hold. Just use the same feature with a 15min of waiting music.
ryukoposting 2 hours ago||
Ah, so that the music changes and/or clips when you jump into the call queue. That way, you know you just got mishandled for 15 minutes. Diabolical.
f_devd 5 hours ago|||
Wouldn't be surprised if they have their own internal PBX system with a SIP trunk
ryukoposting 5 hours ago||
Sigh. VoIP makes everything less interesting.
justin66 4 hours ago||
I mean, any system has the ability to play a message before putting the call into a queue. Make the message fifteen minutes of muzak…
dsr_ 6 hours ago||
"Best available laptop support" apparently means 18/30 or 12/20.

Pretty sure I would consider those both failing grades.

Steve16384 5 hours ago||
I would imagine that most people who call are doing so because the "online help" can't help them. People want their problem fixed as quickly as possible, no-one wants to call a call centre.
Sohcahtoa82 23 minutes ago||
> I would imagine that most people who call are doing so because the "online help" can't help them.

Based on the anecdata I have, this is very false.

My brother used to work tech support for X-Box Live. He said 80% of his calls were for password resets, something anybody could self-service in less time than it takes to find the customer support phone number.

Sure, there were cases where they no longer had access to the original e-mail address on the account, or cases where he was sure someone was trying to social engineer their way into someone else's account by claiming a forgotten password, but generally, he'd just trigger the password reset e-mail and the customer was able to reset their password.

At one point, he tried going off-script to tell people to select the "Forgot Password" option and walk them through the self-service, but he got in trouble for it.

delecti 5 hours ago||
I would actually expect support calls to be more bimodal between customers who use them as a last resort or first resort. If I'm calling support for something then I have probably already tried everything within my power. But there are absolutely people who will call as the first step, for a variety of reasons (maybe they're too technologically illiterate to even approach the problem, or maybe they feel like being a customer entitles them to technical support, which isn't totally unjustified).
fechols 3 hours ago||
What if I told you that customer support is a marketing expense?
Night_Thastus 2 hours ago||
I am so frustrated that every company in the world seems to treat user support as a tax that they must must MUST eliminate at all costs.

Microsoft just straight up doesn't have phone service anymore - at least for non-enterprise customers. It's gone. You get an online chatbot, that's it. Have a problem with your license or account? Get fucked. Go away.

Good support makes me want to stick with a company. Do you know why I buy all my audio gear from one company? Because they're one state over with a 5 year warranty, and immediately respond if I'm having a problem. I considered 'better' options from China, but the last time I did that I got equipment that would me ~$200 to send back for repairs when it broke, so I just shelved it.

But once you get past a certain size, and once you have enterprise customers, supporting everyone else is a waste of time. Why spend X dollars on customer retention with good support when you can spend X/2 dollars advertising to new customers or shoving in ads for other companies that will generate more money instead?

vladde 3 hours ago||
my parking space company has a variant that if you call in, you can choose to be called back at a later point.

what they don't tell you is that they will call you back after 4pm.

you don't keep your place in the queue. the first time around i expected to be called back within an hour, and ended up expecting a call "any minute now" the whole day.

john_strinlai 7 hours ago||
>the wait times aimed to “influence customers to increase their adoption of digital self-solve, as a faster way to address their support question. This involves inserting a message of high call volumes, to expect a delay in connecting to an agent and offering digital self-solve solutions as an alternative.”

>Even if HP’s telephone support center wasn’t busy, callers would reportedly hear: We are experiencing longer waiting times and we apologize for the inconvenience.

i am absolutely positive, without proof of course, that this is an extremely common practice. my isp does the exact same thing with basically the same wording. over the years i have called at all times of the day, all days of the week, across all seasons, and it is always "we are experiencing high call volumes right now. but hey, did you know you can do lots of stuff on the website? go to the website. please use the website".

i almost (not really) respect HP for at least admitting to it, rather than all the companies that i suspect are still doing this in the shadows and will never admit to it.

sharkweek 6 hours ago||
There’s no doubt this is true in my mind.

I honestly bet 75% of the time I hear “We are currently experiencing high call volumes” someone answered within a minute or two.

In some sense that has the befit of a “surprise and delight” moment too because the consumer might be prepared to wait longer and then “whoa nice, that wasn’t so long!”

philipallstar 7 hours ago|||
I think it is a common practice, and another I think will be just a static set of times that they play the "higher than average call volumes" message, rather than anything dynamic. I think call centre stuff is incredibly basic, even though the domain isn't that complicated.
Symbiote 6 hours ago|||
It can't be that complicated.

My doctor's office phone manages "You are number two in the queue". Somewhere, maybe it was a previous doctor, added "and should expect to wait about 5 minutes".

jerf 3 hours ago||||
All call centers are actually located in Lake Wobegon, where all the call wait times are above average.

( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Wobegon#Recurring_monolog... , for the probably many people who don't know the reference.)

jandrese 7 hours ago|||
Even in my internal company tech support line they play that "higher than expected call volumes" message, but their website also has counter on it that tells you just how many people are on hold and even when it is just one (me) it plays that message.
bombcar 6 hours ago|||
The only ones I believe are the ones that tell you the estimated wait time or number ahead of you (most of which offer to call you back).

It is funny to hear "our wait times are higher than average, your wait is estimated to be zero minutes".

InitialLastName 7 hours ago|||
Easy for that to be true: just set your expectations to zero.
vjvjvjvjghv 5 hours ago|||
"i am absolutely positive, without proof of course, that this is an extremely common practice. "

Health insurance does this for sure. From what I have seen I am convinced they have sophisticated systems to frustrate patients and providers until they give up.

voakbasda 7 hours ago|||
Did they admit to it? Or get caught?
salawat 7 hours ago||
>i am absolutely positive, without proof of course, that this is an extremely common practice. my isp does the exact same thing with basically the same wording. "sorry, high call volumes right now. but hey, did you know you can do lots of stuff on the website? go to the website. please use the website".

Look up Erlang numbers for call centers. We absolutely know how to calculate required reps for a desired queue dwell. It is 100% a voluntary decision to degrade the Call Center to push people to web based automation. Consider this your proof. We have the equations. Executives make the active decision to not use them/use them to shift cost burden.

t. Helped implement a Call Center before, and we aimed for sub 5 minute queue dwell at all hours of the day.

carefulfungi 6 hours ago|||
Wait time is calculable; but you need an accurate forecast to staff and schedule. When I last worked in this space, forecasts were generated down to 15m granularity and agent work schedules (hours, break times, etc.) were derived from those forecasts.

I wonder how these systems work now...

miki123211 5 hours ago|||
What if you get a large number of people calling at very particular times? E.G. what if you're getting far more calls at 09:00 than at 09:15? You can't hire agents just to handle a 15-minute surge.

Erlang's model assumes that the world is static or at least predictable; it doesn't take into account things like the superBowl, a hurricane cancelling 90+% of flights from a major airport, or a much-larger-than-usual number of customers trying to cancel because of a previously-confidential price increase now being publicly announced.

sdwr 1 hour ago||
Baseline demand affects the numbers much more than the unpredictable spikes do. You can come up with edge cases if you like, but the reality is that it all averages out pretty well with large volume.
kevinpet 5 hours ago||
I'm mostly a libertarian, but claiming "we are experiencing higher than normal call volumes" when you aren't should put you in jail for fraud.
jmull 6 hours ago|
“improve customer tech support”

That’s corporate-speak. They say improve, but it’s perfectly well understood internally to mean drive costs down.

There’s no problem with doing that at the expense of the customer as long as you can get away with it. (Seems like here they were going for a boiling-the-frog approach but moved too quickly.)

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