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Posted by cainxinth 1 day ago

A Japanese glossary of chopsticks faux pas (2022)(www.nippon.com)
407 points | 328 commentspage 2
rdiddly 5 hours ago|
OK, I was probably never going to visit Japan, and this convinced me the rest of the way.
untrust 4 hours ago||
Technically in the USA: It is impolite to begin eating without first washing your hands, rest your elbows on the table, chew with your mouth open, double dip in shared dishes, leave your napkin on the table, and also all sorts of rules about which spoon to use when. None of these rules are followed by your average American and nobody really cares, I imagine it's similar to these.
RestartKernel 5 hours ago|||
That's like avoiding the West because of fancy cutlery rules. Japanese people are not as thin-skinned as lists like these lead you to believe.
falsemyrmidon 4 hours ago|||
The two about death are the only ones that matter. You also get a huge pass on a lot of social expectations for being a foreigner, especially if you make even a small attempt to conform and be polite.
xandrius 1 hour ago||
And that's totally fine :)
emursebrian 23 hours ago||
Most of these are common sense. As a tourist foreigner, you also aren't expected to know all the customs but it's appreciated when you try. The one about which direction to NOT point the chopsticks in was new to me. If you just watch what other people are doing, then try to do the same thing, you're probably on the right track.

Related to eating, one pro-tip I got from a local is that when you're ready to close your tab or get your check at a bar or restaurant, you can make a small X with your index fingers.

Really useful in a busy bar!

0x3f 23 hours ago||
> Most of these are common sense.

A lot of them are not common sense at all. Even the 'serious' ones require cultural knowledge to understand. Only a subset of the rest would be un-ideal across cultures, which is what I would use to measure 'common sense'.

It's like how in some asian cultures it's rude to bring the bowl closer to you by lifting it off the table, and in others it's the opposite. And of course there's some just-so story for why, that seems to make sense if you don't know about the opposing just-so story.

Things like that aren't what I'd call common sense.

morkalork 23 hours ago||
A bunch of the common sense ones, like not pointing at someone with your ustensiles, are the same in western etiquette.
Sprotch 22 hours ago||
It’s not western etiquette and makes no sense to me
ahhhhnoooo 21 hours ago||
Using your fork, knife, or spoon to point at a person is absolutely considered rude. Gesturing with utensils likewise (because you can shower others with cast off detritus.)

A quick Google search will turn up hundreds of results corroborating this.

nayroclade 19 hours ago||
Or just consider the “asshole dinner guest” trope that appears in so many TV shows and movies. They will always be talking too loudly and gesticulating/pointing with their cutlery.
aidenn0 21 hours ago|||
1. I have seen Japanese people do approximately half of the things on the list.

2. The two listed as "serious" are related to Japanese funerary rites, and so are clearly culturally specific.

3. Several of the things listed are perfectly acceptable in other chopstick-using cultures. Many are also perfectly acceptable to do with a fork and/or knife in cultures that use forks and knives. I think I would go so far as to say that there is not a single thing on there for which it would be widely considered rude to do in all cultures.

rtpg 12 hours ago|||
> 1. I have seen Japanese people do approximately half of the things on the list.

There are people in Japan who are rude or who do not have as good manners or etiquette when they are eating alone!

If everyone followed all manners all the times they wouldn't really be encoded woould they?

humanlity 9 hours ago||||
The use of incense to remember ancestors was spread widely across Asia by Confucianism. Chopsticks look quite similar to incense sticks, so it makes common sense to have this tradition.
bspammer 11 hours ago|||
Both of the serious ones are not specific to Japan, I got told off in China for standing chopsticks up in rice. I suspect anywhere with a significant Buddhist population will have the same taboo.
manarth 8 hours ago|||

    when you're ready to close your tab, you can make a small X with your index fingers
In the UK, we have the mime of "writing a cheque". I wonder how widespread that is, and if/when it'll fall out of relevance with the following generations who have never seen a cheque-book?
SpecialistK 23 hours ago||
> The one about which direction to NOT point the chopsticks in was new to me.

I suspect it mostly affects left handed people.

frereubu 23 hours ago||
> こじ箸 Kojibashi (also known as ほじり箸 hojiribashi)

> To use the chopsticks to pick something out from near the bottom of the dish.

I think there must be some bits that are lost in translation for some of these. This makes it sound like you can't eat all of the food in a bowl with your chopsticks.

FartyMcFarter 23 hours ago||
Maybe it means that you're digging up food that is under other food?
frereubu 23 hours ago|||
Yeah, could be - that's kind of what I mean in terms of being lost in translation. It feels like there's missing information / context in quite a few of them.

Edit: In fact I think you're completely right - "picking out" something near the bottom of the dish does suggest that.

themaninthedark 23 hours ago|||
Let me check but I think it refers to a shared dish; at an izakaiya you often order a bunch of shared food plates and then serve yourself from them.

It is definitely rude to use chopsticks that you just put in your mouth to go rooting around for something in those. You are supposed to take from the top and ideally turn them around using the back end. Some people frown on using the back ends however as it may have been touched by your hand...

Edit add: It means to dig food out, either from your own dish or a shared one. Like mixing the food up to look for something you like in it.

irishcoffee 22 hours ago||
返し箸 Kaeshibashi (also known as 逆さ箸 sakasabashi)

To turn the chopsticks around when serving food so that the tips of the chopsticks that have touched one’s mouth do not touch the food.

univerio 23 hours ago|||
I think just written in an ambiguous way: "dish" here refers to the food contained in the vessel and not the vessel itself.
bigwheels 23 hours ago|||
It's like core-ing out the goody bits from an otherwise bland pint of ice cream. Who would ever do such a disgusting and selfish thing? :-0
bagacrap 8 hours ago|||
Kinda sad for me to know this because one of my favorite things about chopsticks is their precision. I can pick exactly the piece of food I feel like eating in the next moment. This makes it sound like I'm not supposed to be picky.
t-3 5 hours ago||
It makes more sense in the context of:

> 移り箸 Utsuribashi (also known as 渡り箸 wataribashi)

> To keep putting the chopsticks into the same side dishes. It is proper etiquette to first eat rice, move on to eat from a side dish, eat rice again, and then eat from a different side dish.

More about politeness to other guests in the context of a shared meal than being picky (and probably also with some similar logic to the TCM theories of how and what to eat, and maybe giving face to the host).

canjobear 3 hours ago||
The fact that this was originally written in Japanese suggests that most Japanese people don't already know this list.
perdomon 23 hours ago||
Some of these sound just as made-up as a lot of Western dining "rules." Maybe someone more familiar with the culture can say whether or not these are true faux pas in an everyday ramen shop or similar.
nihonde 14 hours ago||
No one is going to get mad at you for violating these, but they will judge you. If you're trying to get along with a person from a proper Japanese family, you'll fail unless you know all of these and more. For example, placing bowls/plates on the table too hard, or not trying hard enough to pay the bill, not serving others, pouring your own drink...the list goes on and on. Most people think these things are silly, but some absolutely do not and will treat you accordingly if you're making these mistakes. Whether or not you care is up to you and the situation. This is all also true in almost every other culture, by the way.
wahnfrieden 21 hours ago||
They’re not fake but some are not followed by everyone outside of formal situations
galangalalgol 21 hours ago||
I always do the splinter thing. I thought that was normal. If the place has disposable chopsticks it isn't the sort of place etiquette matters is it?
kdheiwns 18 hours ago|||
Even expensive restaurants in Japan use disposable chopsticks. And you only get splinters on your chopsticks because you're rubbing them in your hands and making pieces break off.

In all my decades of using chopsticks, I've never had a splinter poke me. But I've seen people rub their chopsticks then complain about splinters.

cthalupa 16 hours ago|||
I was really confused by this because I've spent about 6 months of my life in Tokyo and got very very very few disposable chopsticks at restaurants a tier above, like, shokken ramen shops.

But the internet informs me that the composite chopsticks that I am used to seeing went away during covid and now disposable wooden chopsticks are the norm.

rtpg 12 hours ago||
I don't exactly know the system for which restaurants pull out of the disposable chopsticks but I think that for example "normal" tempura, katsudon, or like soba restaurants will tend to be those.

I almost associate the cheapo reusable plastic chopsticks with some food courts or Matsuya at this point.

galangalalgol 17 hours ago|||
There are the ones that are partly rounded and only attached for a cm or so at the top. They are fine. Then there are the square ones that are attached for half or more of the length and don't always break apart cleanly. They have never poked me, but they have shed bits into my food before that I had to pick out. I will stop cleaning up the ones that don't actually need it. I didn't realize it was offensive.
dbcurtis 21 hours ago|||
he he... is that the equivalent of when I was a kid we differentiated by "drive-in", "paper-napkin restaurant" and "cloth-napkin restaurant" in order of how much trouble you would be in if you embarrassed your parents.
mark_l_watson 9 hours ago||
Fairly much common sense advice, with some cultural taboos like resting chopsticks pointing to the right.

I have always been a little embarrassed by my own use of chopsticks. When I was three or four years old a waitress in a Chinese restaurant helped me figure out a way to hold them that worked for me. Long story short, I am in my 70s and I have very effectively been getting food efficiently into my mouth with chopsticks my whole life - with horrible style.

ghaff 7 hours ago|
The chopstick against the knuckle doesn’t work for me I use the fingertip.
commanderj 11 hours ago||
Would it not have been easier to just write down what is actually "allowed" :D
nssnsjsjsjs 11 hours ago||
Couple of funeral related ones, couple of odd customs, and the rest are "imagine what an overbearing parent would say to their 6 yo using chopsticks"
nvader 13 hours ago||
> To turn the chopsticks around when serving food so that the tips of the chopsticks that have touched one’s mouth do not touch the food.

Huh, this is something that I did consistently, believing it to be good etiquette.

perlgeek 12 hours ago|
Somewhere on the page they mentioned that there are separate serving chopsticks. Turning the eating chopsticks around is probably more normal when there aren't separate ones.
mmsc 17 hours ago|

  こすり箸 Kosuribashi:
 To rub waribashi (disposable chopsticks) together to remove splinters.
I don't know about Japan, but everybody does this in Taiwan.
Shank 13 hours ago||
> I don't know about Japan

It is definitely not appropriate. If you break the chop sticks and use them correctly your fingers will never touch the surface where there are splinters.

bitwank 13 minutes ago||
I always do it under the table; something I instinctively do without ever being told to. Now I wonder if I might have picked up on nonverbal cues at some point in the past. If I were someplace where chopsticks were the norm, I would probably just carry my own as I find the disposable wooden ones very off putting. I have to wonder if there is a rule about using your own chopsticks though.
musicale 17 hours ago||
Sandpaper and dremel aren't on the forbidden list yet.
manarth 8 hours ago||
I don't often bring sandpaper or dremel tools to a restaurant.
xandrius 1 hour ago||
Well, that's just against traditions.
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