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Posted by zdw 15 hours ago

The curious case of retro demo scene graphics(www.datagubbe.se)
318 points | 80 commentspage 2
tomcam 3 hours ago|
Well-balanced, well-written article. It linked to a site called demozoo that used Cloudflare bot detection to block me at least 6 times from my home IP that CF had heretofore permitted, which is damn nice of them considering nothing nefarious ever originated from this address.

So, no way to tell if the illustrations were illustrative.

jrm4 3 hours ago||
This is a great examination, and I think reminds me of why I'm not so panicky about AI art -- there was pretty much the same kind of panic around the invention of photography.

It will change, but craft and "look what I did" won't go away.

qingcharles 5 hours ago||
Even great artists do it. Some of the most famous movie posters by Drew Struzan are originally photographs:

https://www.reddit.com/r/OldSchoolCool/comments/ejsb22/micha...

taeric 5 hours ago|
The article touches on this. I found the Norman Rockwell quote rather amusing.
bob1029 12 hours ago||
I like the case of video editing. This is a situation where oftentimes zero percent of the source material is your own creation. Most would still consider this an artform. Shaping the overall meaning of a pile of raw assets is usually way more valuable than any one asset in isolation.

Successfully integrating many disparate parts has always been the big ticket item. Dealing with the rough edges and making different ideas play together nicely is where all the value lives in most businesses.

dfxm12 1 hour ago||
I don't think anyone was selling demos commercially or trying to pass off the creative ideas as their own work. With this in mind, we should set aside ideas of plagiarism, copyright, etc. It was a showcase of technical prowess/creativity. People knew what Death Dealer looked like & if they saw it pop up in a demo, they wouldn't think the demogroup was passing it on as their original idea (I would assert this was a given). As such, it was meant to be a reference. People thought they knew the limitation of their computer. They would play Lemmings, or whatever, and think that's as good as the graphics on the Amiga can get. The point of the demo was to blow those conceptions away.

The creative part in a demo wasn't the the art itself, the subject, the composition, etc., no, it was representing something thought impossible. Eventually, kinda like how photography changed painters' relationship with realistic representation, more powerful tech did the same with these types of demos, so the medium moved on.

richrichardsson 11 hours ago||
Not sure I agree with the final takeaway point. At least from a personal standpoint anyway. I used AI images in a couple of Amiga intros, but actively admitted to using them. At the time there wasn't quite the backlash against their use, so now would completely steer clear, but not having access to a graphic artist is reflected in the output I've managed in the recent times (zero).
taeric 5 hours ago||
Curious not to see the term rotoscoping mentioned. As a lot of what is shown in copying some pictures is effectively that, isn't it?
egypturnash 2 hours ago|
Rotoscoping is specifically tracing over a sequence of images - usually video or film frames - to create a sequence of drawings that can be used in an animation workflow.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotoscoping

Spaceballs’ State Of The Art and 9 Fingers are a couple of Amiga demoscene productions that relied on rotoscoping.

taeric 2 hours ago||
Right, I suppose you would call what Norman Rockwell was doing was tracing?

I still see them as largely related? That not considered the case?

egypturnash 39 minutes ago||
Artists and animators (like me!) make some fine distinctions between different ways of studying reality and transferring it onto the canvas.

Using a model is posing a live person and/or some objects and setting up lights and painting from that. Artists have done this for years. I've done this. Rockwell did this.

Using photo reference is taking photographs (yours or others') and working from those. I've done this. Rockwell did this too!

Tracing is placing your reference image beneath or over your canvas, and tracing the contours you see in it. Tracing paper, chroma-key, projectors, camera lucidia, tracing the image onto acetate and taping that to your Amiga's monitor to trace it again in DPaint, dropping ref into one layer in Photoshop and working over it in another one, these are all methods of tracing. I've done them all! Rockwell probably did this now and then, with the caveat that a pro's tracing is a very different beast from a beginner's - it's easy for a beginner to just trace the contours with no thought as to how they come together into a 3d shape, and get a drawing that feels dead and lifeless and subtly wrong. Saying someone's work looks like a tracing is kind of an insult.

Rotoscoping is explicitly a process of tracing/referencing a sequence of images to produce a sequence of images rather than a single image. It is related! But this article is entirely discussing the way demoscene artists would reproduce a static image, so roto does not apply here. Rockwell painted static images; he never did this.

(It's certainly possible that Rockwell could have taken single frames of film and had them printed for reference, but that's still not roto. Roto's explicitly an animation process that results in a series of drawings based on your film/video ref.)

krige 13 hours ago||
It's hard to get in the era of ubiquitous 32 bit color depth, but back in the day, part of the show was making merely your hardware output picture very close to the reference in as many colors as possible and good resolution too. This was where Amiga's special video modes could really shine.

Thus, some demos, like the one where Lazur's image came from [0] were just slideshows of very colorful images that were more than likely traced from something.

[0] https://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=3715 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmhffwhGiK0

deepsun 3 hours ago||
"Good artists copy, great artists steal" (c) Picasso
tom607 8 hours ago|
Nice video from the Ahoy channel on his recreation of a pixel art burger that I think offers a really nice insight into the process for creating images like these

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4EFkspO5p4

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