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Posted by DiffTheEnder 7 hours ago

Bird brains (2023)(www.dhanishsemar.com)
247 points | 156 commentspage 2
bwv848 4 hours ago|
Been to NZ once. Keas are indeed the coolest parrots ever. Climb to the top of Avalanche Peak and you’re guaranteed to see some soaring in the sky, with snowy Mt. Rolleston in the background. Kiwis call them alpine parrots, but they are not. They were common on both islands before Polynesian/Maori hunted many of them, and European ranchers forced them to retreat to high beech forests and alpine zones. Another place is Dart Hut, I even found some kea feathers there.
Supercompressor 1 hour ago|
Kiwi here. They live in alpine regions, they have adapted to alpine life - how are they not alpine parrots? Go back far enough and you could make this argument about anything.
bwv848 41 minutes ago||
Sure man, if 700 years is far enough for you. Meanwhile, human spent thousands of years to domesticate junglefowl into chicken.
culi 3 hours ago||
It seems like animals that have to memorize a really wide variety of plants, fruit, flowers, etc tend to have complex and dense brains
bradley13 4 hours ago||
Birds are highly optimized. For example, all cells contain a full genome. The genomes in birds are a lot smaller - less trash DNA - which saves them weight and generally makes the cells more efficient.
DiffTheEnder 3 hours ago|
This is interesting because I wonder if it compounds. Smaller genome, smaller cells, more neurons in the same volume... and now those neurons are individually more efficient too. The density numbers already seemed hard to explain just from spatial optimisation -- this might be the missing piece? Wonder what research exists here
lateforwork 4 hours ago||
This is Alex the parrot, mentioned in the article: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldYkFdu5FJk
amelius 5 hours ago||
Reminds me of:

https://www.nature.com/news/2007/070716/full/news070716-15.h...

> Scans reveal a fluid-filled cavity in the brain of a normal man.

netcan 4 hours ago||
Parrots are definitely smart, but birds generally pack a lot into a small mass. That's required for flight.
bitwize 1 hour ago||
I think that dogs and cats fail the mirror test not because they are unintelligent or lack a "sense of self", but because their sense of self is tied up with their sense of smell. Mirror reflections don't smell like themselves, so they don't recognize the reflection as themselves. They might recognize the reflection as a strange dog or cat, which may provoke aggression.
roywiggins 3 hours ago||
It makes you wonder how smart their ancestors- dinosaurs- were.
small_model 6 hours ago|
Given parrots can talk, there must be a neuron count that activates language (assuming anatomy allows it), similar to LLM parameter count.
jayers 6 hours ago||
That seems like an unfounded inference. Plenty of animals have more neurons than humans but lesser cognitive and language abilities. Language has lot to do with structure of the brain in addition to neuron count.
pegasus 4 hours ago|||
One thing I've learned by following a link from elsewhere in this thread is that while the total count of neurons in an animal's nervous system is not a good proxy for intelligence, the count of neurons in the forebrain is. By that measure, only the orca ranks higher than humans [1].

That doesn't mean language ability is a natural outcome of crossing a certain threshold of brain complexity; if anything it's more likely the other way around: this complexity being be driven by highly social behavior and communication.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_by_number_of_n...

Zambyte 3 hours ago||||
Language also has a lot to do with what we do. We do more complex things than animals, so we say more complex things than animals. The biggest difference in the evolution of human language versus the evolution of elephant language might just be that we have thumbs.
vablings 6 hours ago|||
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41559-025-02855-9

Birds have areas of the brain that we would consider language alike. Both for native bird communication and I would also speculate that for human to bird communication.

If you have ever owned a parrot this is blatantly obvious since they actively communicate and vocalize both observations and needs/desires

lukan 6 hours ago|||
Where do you get the conclusion from, that there is a "must"? There can be lot's of neurons ... but dedicated to other purposes.
Philip-J-Fry 6 hours ago|||
Parrots can't "talk". They just mimick noises they've heard before
deelowe 6 hours ago|||
This reminds me of being told dogs don't feel emotions by someone who never owned one. Parrots most definitely can talk. Their language is extremely primitive but if you've ever been around a grey and it's owner for some time, they definitely talk to each other. The parrot will readily communicate observations and desires.
unzadunza 5 hours ago||||
Isn't that what humans do too? We mimic noises we've heard before and we associate meaning to the noises. Parrots can do that. Our quaker parrot would bite you, then say 'not supposed to bite'. He clearly associated some kind of meaning to that phrase.
Zambyte 3 hours ago|||
Not to make an argument against parrots understanding, but humans understand noises before they mimic them. Children are often able to learn and express themselves in sign language (if taught obviously) earlier than they can learn to speak, and they can respond to spoken word in sign language before they can speak.
SoftTalker 3 hours ago|||
Or maybe he just learned that's what people say when he bites them, so he started saying that himself.
vablings 5 hours ago||||
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_(parrot)

Common misconception. Parrots are much more than just mimicry machines. There is also Apollo the parrot that shows this in detail and following from Irene's research with Alex

onlyrealcuzzo 6 hours ago||||
Many animals can communicate.

Parrots can't speak fluent English, which shouldn't be surprising. Last I checked, no human is fluent in Parrot or Dolphin.

Though, at least one parrot may have demonstrated an ability to understand language at more than a surface level.

PurpleRamen 5 hours ago||||
Bumblebee (the Transformer) might have an objection here. Purposeful mimicry can be used for talking on certain complexity. It does not have to be human-level to be communication.
throwway120385 5 hours ago||||
This is also what toddlers do until bit by bit they're repeating everything you say back to you in context.
small_model 5 hours ago||||
So do we, otherwise we would all speak our own individual language.
tobr 6 hours ago||||
So what you’re saying is that parrots are stochastic parrots.
rossjudson 6 hours ago|||
You've just described most of the information economy.
SoftTalker 5 hours ago|||
This thread is going to end with Monty Python jokes.
ofrzeta 5 hours ago||||
Like Starlings do.
mock-possum 5 hours ago|||
I mean, isn’t that just what you’re doing too? If you see a cow, and you’ve been taught that ‘cow’ is the sound that describes a cow, don’t you say “cow?”
tokai 6 hours ago|||
Lots of birds can talk, not only the very clever ones like parrots and covids. Its mimicry and that generally doesn't seem to take many neurons.
dboreham 6 hours ago|||
Plausible, and likely similar.
fredgrott 6 hours ago|||
mimicking is not talking....

Its part of their calling social members wiring....

DetroitThrow 6 hours ago||
Given parrots eat their own poop (https://lafeber.com/pet-birds/questions/parrots-eating-poop/), there must be a neuron count/density that activates self-poop eating (assuming anatomy allows it), similar to LLM parameter count.
SoftTalker 5 hours ago|||
Dogs do that too.
IAmBroom 5 hours ago|||
My dogs eat poop, and therefore are also like LLMs.

Your hypothesis has therefore been peer-reviewed.

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