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Posted by rrreese 17 hours ago

Backblaze has stopped backing up OneDrive and Dropbox folders and maybe others(rareese.com)
932 points | 567 commentspage 3
Vegenoid 11 hours ago|
AFAICT Backblaze does back up .git directories. I have many repos backed up. The .git directory is hidden by default in the web UI (along with all other hidden files), but there is an option to show them.

You should try downloading one of your backed up git repos to see if it actually does contain the full history, I just checked several and everything looks good.

andybak 10 hours ago||
I commented on this topic elsewhere on this page. This is an email from 2021. Maybe they changed policy but here:

> Bob (Backblaze Help)

> Aug 5, 2021, 11:33 PDT

> Hello there,

> Thank you for taking the time to write in,

> Unfortunately .git directories are excluded by Backblaze by default. File

> changes within .git directories occur far too often and over so many files

> that the Backblaze software simply would not be able to keep up. It's beyond

> the scope of our application.

> The Personal Backup Plan is a consumer grade backup product. Unfortunately we

> will not be able to meet your needs in this regard.

> Let me know if you have any other questions.

> Regards,

> Bob The Backblaze Team

layer8 9 hours ago|||
> changes within .git directories occur far too often and over so many files that the Backblaze software simply would not be able to keep up.

I don’t really understand that. I’m using Windows File History, and while it’s limited to backing up changes only every 15 minutes, and is writing to a local network drive, it doesn’t seem to have any trouble with .git directories.

foobiekr 32 minutes ago|||
This is idiotic. All they have to do is schedule them and then introduce enough hysteresis to not constantly churn on their end. Even if they backed up at most once a day this would be better than this idiocy.
Ajedi32 1 hour ago|||
I'd be really curious to know why that's working for you and not me. I just tried restoring and none of my .git directories were included; just the working copy. I tried with both the web and desktop restore tool.

There's no mention of .git being excluded in the Settings or on their support page (https://www.backblaze.com/computer-backup/docs/supported-bac...); they just silently decided to not back up a bunch of my files without telling me... wonderful.

Ajedi32 11 hours ago|||
Thanks. Silently ignoring .git folders would be much more egregious than not backing up cloud drives in my opinion. The latter is at least somewhat understandable, though they should have been more transparent about it.
Ajedi32 1 hour ago||
Okay nevermind, I just checked and none of my git repos are being backed up; just the working copy. That's pretty awful.
tehbeard 6 hours ago||
Does the UI atleast hint there's hidden files or is it only by going to the filters you can find this out?

It seems incredibly stupid for a BACKUP PROGRAM to not list the hidden files instead of indicating they're hidden (e.g. _(hidden)_.git)

minebreaker 14 hours ago||
I just checked the Backblaze app and found that .iso was on the exclusion list. Just in case anyone here is as dumb as I...
h4kunamata 2 hours ago||
Reading the comments and OP, DESERVED!!!

You all skipped the most important part: 3, 2, 1 backup rule.

Basically, you all were using Backblaze as a centered backup system, what do you think it was going to happen???

You do not backup data and call it a day, you must have a process in place to go there and check random files and folders for corruption. This process would have warned you that the sync was not 1:1

dandano 1 hour ago||
Deserved? If their product said, ensure that you have the 3,2,1 method then you could claim that. You pay for a backup, OP and everyone is rightly pretty mad about it.
subhobroto 1 hour ago||
To some it might feel nice the be vindicated. To know that people who didnt follow industry standard 3, 2, 1 backup rule have lost all the data they thought Backblaze would protect for them.

The thing to empathize here is those who purchased these retail Backblaze plans fell into two buckets:

1. The technically savvy who were following the industry standard 3, 2, 1 backup rule, arbitraging the "unlimited" plan, waiting for the game to be over.

2. The technically unsavvy who believed in the "unlimited" plan

My bet is that 2 is screwed and that's majority of the users of this specific Backblaze plan.

This is likely to have rippling effects on Backblaze including their unrelated, object store plans. When there are choices available, people don't appreciate being ripped off and right now, there are a lot of choices in object stores.

robertjpayne 3 hours ago||
While there may be some issues with Backblaze there's no real trusted alternative with such a long history.

Regardless to the OP's issues:

- on macOS since 9.0.2.784 released in 2023 all .git folders are included in backups - Cloud drives are problematic to backup because they all use extension plugins to hide the network and your local disk only contains stubs instead of actual files. If Backblaze scans it fully it'll download everything and exhaust your disk space there's no easy solution here.

I don't buy for a minute they were trying to be "sneaky" to save some $$ I instead feel like for the majority of users they felt it was misleading to backup stubs only and would rather not brick user computers by downloading all the files. Remember they can't access your cloud disk directly so the only way they can get the file contents is by doing an fread and letting the cloud drive client sync the content on demand.

dathinab 16 hours ago||
Ironically drop box and one drive folders I can still somewhat understand as they are "backuped" in other ways (but potentially not reliable so I also understand why people do not like that).

But .git? It does not mean you have it synced to GitHub or anything reliable?

If you do anything then only backup the .git folder and not the checkout.

But backing up the checkout and not the .git folder is crazy.

dnnddidiej 15 hours ago||
I use backblaze and have repos I dont push for this reason so I am a bit stunned lol
efreak 9 hours ago|||
I have multiple drives that started out as their own os. Each of them has a Dropbox folder in the standard location. Each of them has a different set of files in them (I deduped at one point), with some overlap of different versions. I no longer use Dropbox, so none of these are synced anywhere.

They don't need to be in my case, I'm only using them now because of existing shortcuts and VM shares and programs configured to source information from them. That doesn't mean I don't want them backed up.

Same for OneDrive: Microsoft configured my account for OneDrive when I set it up. Then I immediately uninstalled it (I don't want it). But I didn't notice that my desktop and documents folders live there. I hate it. But by the time I noticed it, it was already being used as a location for multiple programs that would need to be reconfigured, and it was easier to get used to it than to fix it. Several things I've forgotten about would likely break in ways I wouldn't notice for weeks/months. Multiple self-hosted servers for connecting to my android devices would need to reindex (Plex, voidtools everything, several remote systems that mount via sftp and connected programs would decide all my files were brand new and had never been seen before)

Hendrikto 15 hours ago|||
> drop box and one drive folders I can still somewhat understand as they are "backuped" in other ways

No they are not. This is explicitly addressed in the article itself.

PunchyHamster 8 hours ago|||
The author of article explicitly ignored both of them come with versioning so it is not just sync, you have old version of files too
Tempest1981 14 hours ago||||
Parent is using "backuped" to mean "likely in some cloud (latest version)". And that may explain why BB excludes .git folders.

You are using it to mean "maintaining full version history", I believe? Another important consideration.

gilrain 14 hours ago||
> You are using it to mean "maintaining full version history", I believe?

No, they are using it to mean “backed up”. Like, “if this data gets deleted or is in any way lost locally, it’s still backed remotely (even years later, when finally needed)”.

I’m astonished so many people here don’t know what a backup is! No wonder it’s easy for Backblaze to play them for fools.

bananamogul 8 hours ago|||
But isn't that exactly what Dropbox does? If I delete a file on my PC, I can go to Dropbox.com and restore it, to some period in the past (I think it depends on what you pay for). In fact, I can see every version that's changed during the retention period and choose which version to restore.

Maintaining version history out to a set retention period is a backup...no?

dathinab 12 hours ago|||
definition of the term backup by most sources is one the line of:

> a copy of information held on a computer that is stored separately from the computer

there is nothing about _any_ versioning, or duration requirements or similar

To use your own words, I fear its you who doesn't know what a backup is and assume a lot other additional (often preferable(1)) things are part of that term.

Which is a common problem, not just for the term backup.

There is a reason lawyers define technical terms in a for this contract specific precise way when making contracts.

Or just requirements engineering. Failing there and you might end up having a backup of all your companies important data in a way susceptible to encrypting your files ransomware or similar.

---

(1): What often is preferable is also sometimes the think you really don't want. Like sometimes keeping data around too long is outright illegal. Sometimes that also applies to older versions only. And sometimes just some short term backups are more then enough for you use case. The point here is the term backup can't mean what you are imply it does because a lot of existing use cases are incompatible with it.

gilrain 2 hours ago||
> To use your own words, I fear its you who doesn't know what a backup is

Feel free to use my reputation, instead: when I say a system is backed up, data cannot be lost by that system being destroyed, because an independent copy always exists. This satisfies those whom it concerns, who put their money where their mouth is, whereas your more generous but insufficient definition would absolutely not be good enough.

When you assure a client that a system is backed up, which definition do they expect from you?

dathinab 14 hours ago|||
normally this folder are synced to dropbox and/or onedrive

both services have internal backups to reduce the chance they lose data

both services allow some limited form of "going back to older version" (like the article states itself).

Just because the article says "sync is not backup" doesn't mean that is true, I mean it literally is backup by definition as it: makes a copy in another location and even has versioning.

It's just not _good enough_ backup for their standards. Maybe even standards of most people on HN, but out there many people are happy with way worse backups, especially wrt. versioning for a lot of (mostly static) media the only reason you need version rollback is in case of a corrupted version being backed up. And a lot of people mostly backup personal photos/videos and important documents, all static by nature.

Through

1. it doesn't really fulfill the 3-2-1 rules it's only 2-1-1 places (local, one backup on ms/drop box cloud, one offsite). Before when it was also backed up to backblaze it was 3-2-1 (kinda). So them silently stopping still is a huge issue.

2. newer versions of the 3-2-1 rule also say treat 2 not just as 2 backups, but also 2 "vendors/access accounts" with the one-drive folder pretty much being onedrive controlled this is 1 vendor across local and all backups. Which is risky.

Timwi 15 hours ago|||
Oftentimes the important data that needs restoring is in the checkout: uncommitted and unstaged changes that represent hours of work.
nikanj 15 hours ago||
Microsoft makes no guarantees on onedrive, you are responsible for backing up that data. Of course they try hard to keep it safe, but contractually they give no promises
devnulled 9 hours ago||
I highly recommend switching to something more like Arq and then using whatever backend storage that you want. There are probably some other open source ways to do it, etc, but Arq scratches the itch of having control over your backups and putting them where you want with a GUI to easily configure/keep track of what is going on.

Maybe there's something newer/better now (and I bought lifetime licenses of it long ago), but it works for me.

That said, I use Arq + Backblaze storage and I think my monthly bill is very low, like under $5. Though I haven't backed-up much media there yet, but I do have control over what is being backed-up.

brandon272 5 hours ago||
I have used Arq for years. It has always been the least problematic, least intrusive, most reliable backup and restore option for me. Appreciative to Stefan Reitshamer for creating and maintaining it.
ValentineC 5 hours ago||
Arq saved me a few hours of work recently when VS Code's GitHub Copilot looped out on a Playwright screenshot (>8k pixel height) and I had to manually edit the JSONL chat history, but accidentally restored to the previous checkpoint. That was one time I really appreciated that I set Arq to back up hourly. (I only restore from Arq maybe 2-3 times a year.)

I wish lifetime licences were still sold.

morpheuskafka 8 hours ago||
Everyone is acting like this is obviously wrong, and they clearly should have communicated the change and made it visible in the exclusion settings.

However, there is a very good reason for not backing up what is in effect network attached storage. Particularly for OneDrive, as it often adds company SharePoint sites you open files from as mountpoints under your OneDrive folder (business OneDrive is basically a personal Sharepoint site under the hood). Trying to back them up would result in downloading potentially hundreds of gigabytes of files to the desktop only to them reupload them to OneDrive. That would also likely trigger data exfiltration flags at your corporate IT.

A Dropbox/OneDrive/Drive/etc folder is a network mount point by another name. (Many of them are not implemented as FUSE mounts or equivalent OS API, not folders on disk.) It's fundamentally reasonable for software that promises backing up the local disk not to backup whatever network drives you happen to have signed in/mounted.

axelthegerman 8 hours ago||
Great explanation, very reasonable.

Except that before they did and then they didn't without any proper notification (release notes don't count for significant changes like this).

They should have just added a pop up or at least email or both, given a heads-up and then again when the change actually kicked in

PunchyHamster 8 hours ago||
Well, you missed the point.

The problem is not them not backing it up by default but:

* changing existing setting to backup less by default * essentially hiding the change from the user as it is not shown on directory exclude list

stratts 15 hours ago||
I think this is a risk with anything that promotes itself as "unlimited", or otherwise doesn't specify concrete limits. I'm always sceptical of services like this as it feels like the terms could arbitrarily change at any point, as we've found out here.

(as a side note, it's funny to see see them promoting their native C app instead of using Java as a "shortcut". What I wouldn't give for more Java apps nowadays)

patates 16 hours ago||
I think this should not be attributed to malice, however unfortunate. I had also developed some sync app once and onedrive folders were indeed problematic, causing cyclic updates on access and random metadata changes for no explicit reason.

Complete lack of communication (outside of release notes, which nobody really reads, as the article too states) is incompetence and indeed worrying.

Just show a red status bar that says "these folders will not be backed up anymore", why not?

eviks 15 hours ago|
What’s worse, random metadata change or a completely missing data?
patates 14 hours ago||
If the constant meta changes (or other peculiarities involving those folders) make the sync unusable, then it can be both. In that case, you stop syncing and communicate.

So my idea is that it's a competency problem (lack of communication), not malice. But it's just a theory, based on my own experience.

In any case, this is a bad situation, however you look at it.

venzaspa 16 hours ago|
On the topic of backing up data from cloud platforms such as Onedrive, I suspect this is stop the client machine from actively downloading 'files on demand' which are just pointers in explorer until you go to open them.

If you've got huge amounts of files in Onedrive and the backup client starts downloading everyone of them (before it can reupload them again) you're going to run into problems.

But ideally, they'd give you a choice.

einr 15 hours ago||
This is a pain, to be sure, but surely there is some sort of logic you could implement to detect whether a file is a Real File that actually exists on the device (if so, back it up) or a pointer to the cloud (ignore it by default, probably, but maybe provide a user setting to force it to back up even these)
yangm97 14 hours ago||
It used to be the case that placeholder files were very obvious but now OneDrive and iCloud (possibly others) work more like an attached network storage with some local cache, and that was a good move for most programs because back then a file being evicted from storage looked like a file deletion.
simplyinfinity 14 hours ago||
Came here to say this. Files in OneDrive get removed from your local storage and are downloaded ON DEMAND. given that you can have 1TB+ onedrive folder, backblaze downloading all of that is gonna throttle your connection and fill up your disk real fast.
NetMageSCW 11 hours ago||
No reason for that to be true.
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