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Posted by mefengl 3 hours ago

Do you want the US to "win" AI?(geohot.github.io)
41 points | 75 comments
mindcrime 1 hour ago|
> Do you want the US to "win" AI?

I don't want any one particular country, or organization, to "win" AI. I want AI capabilities to remain diffuse and spread out, so that everybody has access to approximately equal levels of AI. If anything, you might say that I want "Open Source to win AI".

oceansky 1 hour ago||
That's the last thing big tech companies want. Maybe Meta being the odd exception with Llama.
rienbdj 1 hour ago|||
Meta wants the models to be cheap and available because their strength is the context data and platform control.
awestroke 1 hour ago|||
Meta is not in the AI game any more
pjc50 1 hour ago|||
Didn't they just announce they were going to be surveilling all their employees screens and keystrokes for AI training? Is that just for the love of the game rather than as part of a product?
oceansky 20 minutes ago||
That's probably just for internal metrics, automating dev work and facilitate stack ranking. Not to release a product necessarily.
oceansky 1 hour ago|||
Just saw Zuckerberg post from July 2025 saying they are going to be "careful" with what they release.
trvz 1 hour ago||
1) In the AI world, that's a very long time ago

2) That still equates to "Meta is not in the AI game any more" in meta-corporate speak

oceansky 24 minutes ago||
Yes, point two is what I meant.
elcritch 1 hour ago|||
Right, in particular my belief long term is that there must be functional open source AI + Robotics that common people can own and operate.

Otherwise big corporations and/or governments will own everything and most folks will be serfs. However if you can buy a few robots and go run a homestead then there can be a counterbalance of people not beholden to the system.

A telling sign of techno-feudalism will be AI becoming heavily regulated and even illegal for common people to make or own. You know because “public safety”.

jayknight 1 hour ago|||
>I want AI capabilities to remain diffuse and spread out...

The most widely used AI systems are controlled by a few billionaires. I'd like to see it become much more spread out.

mindcrime 1 hour ago||
Fair. I could have phrased that better. I agree, things should ideally become even more diffuse than they currently are!
keybored 1 hour ago|||
This smells like how markets would work well if everyone had a little capital. But money is too fungible. The more you have the more you can get.

But if electricity and hardware is a proxy for AI then those things are much less fungible. And if those two things in turn are not tied to the hip with money.

> If anything, you might say that I want "Open Source to win AI".

Has OSS won in terms of being software for the people?

safety1st 57 minutes ago||
From a standpoint of personal self interest, here's an argument I rarely hear made, perhaps some will consider it tasteless, but I find compelling.

I want the US to win AI because if it doesn't, China will, and China's functionally an ethnostate, and I'm not Han Chinese.

That's not the only reason I don't want China to win. We're talking about a country where freedom of expression and democratic representation are foreign ideas. But it so happens that I was born not Han Chinese and have no ancestry in China, and the preponderance of evidence over the last few decades shows that the result of this, is that China will pretty much never "share the wealth" with me in any meaningful form. I can't really immigrate there, start a business there and so on without encountering huge risks that stem from a system which preferences Han Chinese. It is run by a government which takes wealth away from non-Han Chinese that get too successful.

AI is going to reshape the global economy one way or another, maybe for better, maybe for worse. But if the Chinese come out ahead of us economically in the process, pretty much all non-Chinese will suffer because that is how they operate their state, and their economy is an instrument of their state.

And yes -- if you are also non-Chinese -- in the long run one way or another this will hit you in the pocketbook too; sooner or later a shift in global commerce will increase your cost of living.

pjc50 44 minutes ago||
This is very true, but:

- very little of this has ever extended outside Chinese borders, apart from the extraterritorial policing of Chinese nationals; they've not "gone global" in the way the US did

- the current US faction is also trying to work towards an ethnostate, and has turned hard against non-USians and increasingly against non-white US nationals: https://edition.cnn.com/2024/05/01/politics/trump-immigratio...

As a Brit:

"it so happens that I was born not [American] and have no ancestry in [America], and the preponderance of evidence over the last few decades shows that the result of this, is that [American billionaires] will pretty much never "share the wealth" with me in any meaningful form." Moreover, American and Russian billionaires have shown substantial interest in making the politics of my home country much worse.

politelemon 58 minutes ago||
The contents of this post, in some parts, is somewhat alien to me. The need to pick a side, root for someone, and figure out a winner. It's very sports team like and detracts from the goals, effects and outcomes of the topic itself. It is entirely possible that there are no good and bad sides, nor is there any need for someone to win any kind of made up trophy.
yencabulator 6 minutes ago|
It does start with

> By all accounts, I should be a neofeudalist.

That kind of language is a neofeudalist cliche, "us vs them" while conveniently not mentioning the billionaire overclass.

sph 1 hour ago||
That investment chart is hilarious and terrifying. You Americans better hope this whole AI thing pans out.
defrost 1 hour ago|
It's not a chart of investment by patriotic US citizens seeking to better the country such that the country "wins" .. more like a chart of military and motte and bailey investments made by individual feuding Norman clans each seeking to be the last castle standing and in control of all the throttle points and gates across the country and ideally the world.
roenxi 1 hour ago||
This is a good time to reflect on the etymology of "Banana Republic" [0]. I suspect most people don't see fruit companies as a major threat, but they'll kill and ravage to get people cheap bananas.

This idea that the morals of the people making investments is in any way relevant is a bit of a misframe. Investors are capable of any evil, the default position is of surprise if one of them is investing out of some sense of responsibility. The point of the economic system is it channels some of the most ghoulish and horrible people to do good as an accidental side effect of their mad rush to wealth and power. Works really well, on average everyone wins.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_republic#Etymology

defrost 1 hour ago||
Did you enjoy reading Cabbages and Kings ?

I'd say that we might both agree that the US economy is currently heavily dependent on the circular jerking of numbers between AI boosters .. remains to be seen what the average person gets to eat from slops.

happytoexplain 1 hour ago||
He praises a person for careful, nuanced takes, but then links to their writing where the first paragraph contains the sentence, "the human experience of art appreciation is indifferent to the source."
yomismoaqui 1 hour ago||
I want open weights models to win AI, don't care if Satan himself does the training and finetuning.
comrade1234 1 hour ago||
I usually don't even know what ai I'm using at any one time. It's just a choice in my IDE between a bunch of different models, and I switch models every now and then when the response time slows down too much (usually when the Americans start waking up). I have no loyalty to any one product.
aggakake 1 hour ago||
It's weird to see geohot rooting against Elon considering his involvement in the early days following Twitter's acquisition.
sph 39 minutes ago||
I dislike Elon and all his fanboys, but I recognize maturity when one is able to move past their mistakes and wrong assumptions, so good on Geohot for that.

It's weird to expect anyone never to make a wrong step in their life, though I can see where this kind of armchair activism tends to be very popular (i.e. on social media)

pjc50 58 minutes ago||
Real error of judgement in not being able to see when Elon went overtly bad. Of course, the libertarian classic: he was only harming other people.
perarneng 1 hour ago||
It would be interesting to see that chart per capita
PunchyHamster 1 hour ago||
There is no "winning". It already proliferates.

All US is doing is taking brunt of the cost of developing it

trvz 1 hour ago|
The brunt cost is taken by the public, whose intellectual property has been expropriated. After all, the worth of our combined data would be at least the sum of the worth of the entire AI industry.
motbus3 1 hour ago|
I think this is a late realisation that people are having that none of those guys are good guys.

People passionate by science see rockets to go to mars, politicians see missiles and spy satellites.

I have a conviction that this was the intention all along. I really hope to be wrong about of this and there is a super good guy who will step up and stop all this nonsense.

I agree that the world where AI is a tool that everybody should have real access too should be the way, but history shows that power never came without oppression. Majority of people took all the risks as paranoia and/or do not have enough understanding.

The moment those tools became slightly better, they started to being used against the wills of everyone who helped building them.

We should stop believing that those folks in charge are good guys or simply doing mistakes. They are doing exactly what they have been working on for 10+ more years.

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