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Posted by calcifer 3 hours ago

How to be anti-social – a guide to incoherent and isolating social experiences(nate.leaflet.pub)
106 points | 84 comments
foo12bar 1 hour ago|
How about the old fashioned freezing with a face contorted in fear like your being held at knife point unable to think of anything to say and just waiting to be able to leave? When you get asked a question, fumble over your words and say something stupid. Later on, you can reflexively watch the memory played over and over again so you're even worse the next time. If you see anyone you met during the encounter afterwards, you can just panic and try to hide your face and escape.

That's a lot easier and comes off more natural IMO.

0xmattf 24 minutes ago||
You reminded me of one of the first interviews I ever had in tech. I took 2 phone screens, and a take home assignment. Last step: Zoom interview with some of the IT team (3 people). It started well, but I slowly started panicking. All three of them were shooting questions at me, which I answered them all correctly, as far as I know, but I was so... cold. Started stammering my words and speaking like a terrified child at the principals office.

I could observe myself and knew what I looked like, but couldn't break it. The CTO stopped me as I was speaking and said "this isn't going to work". As soon as he said that, I ended the call. I had some major imposter syndrome during that time, I think that played a huge role in my fumble. Still massively cringe when I think about that, though.

justonceokay 1 hour ago|||
If any one single interaction makes you have such a response, that might be a reason to see someone. I wish for everyone to be able to move through the social world with grace and ease.

Put less kindly: there’s nothing so special about you that being yourself around a new person should cause such a panic. Even if they take an instant dislike to you, that should be something you can take in stride

danparsonson 36 minutes ago|||
The kind of reaction described by the GP is probably trained by a lifetime of bad experiences. One can end up going into every interaction thinking about which parts of oneself to dial down in order to have some semblance of a normal conversation, and inevitably that over-thinking just makes it worse. Ask leading questions, smile, listen careful, don't interrupt - you know, all that sort of thing that comes more naturally to some than to others.
nickburns 4 minutes ago||||
[delayed]
FuckButtons 3 minutes ago||||
Single interaction? Buddy that’s my entire life.
arowthway 1 hour ago|||
What does "being yourself" even mean? Obviously not "acting the exact same way you act when alone", since this would be impossible/weird/rude/illegal but also not "acting intuitively without overthinking", since the socially anxious person's intuition is to run away.
yetihehe 1 hour ago|||
That phrase is simply inaccurate. Your "self" needs to care less about opinions of others, and it should not be scared of making mistakes. "Be yourself" is typically parsed as "do not try to be someone other, do not try to be like movie actor".

> not "acting intuitively without overthinking", since the socially anxious person's intuition is to run away.

Yes, it is exactly that, but instead of focusing on "acting intuitively", focus on that "without overthinking". Overthinking is the problem to be solved. "thinking just enough" is the optimal target.

finnthehuman 13 minutes ago||||
You know the meme that goes: "Be yourself. No, not like that."

It is possible for someone to have a goal of changing themselves into a person who can fit in socially, and be effortlessly comfortable while doing so. After building the underlying skills, they know how to navigate social situations well enough to intuit how honest and revealing is appropriate for a given situation and can drop "fake it until you make it". They need to become comfortable with taking surmountable social penalties for the comfort of less self-filtering and chance to have more meaningful connections.

"Be yourself" is advice for that.

quirkot 1 hour ago||||
"being yourself" means choosing to believe that the you that is true is competent and capable of growth while the awkwardness is a temporary barrier between that is not reflective of your true nature.
duskdozer 22 minutes ago||||
>Be yourself (well, as long as you aren't like that, IYKYK)
justonceokay 1 hour ago|||
I don’t mean like being “authentic” or whatever that means. In this conversation “being yourself” means literally you existing in that moment in your body.

I can’t tell you specifically what being “yourself“ means. But I can absolutely tell you that if you panic when you meet a stranger that you are not centered in your own experience. Your mind is elsewhere. You don’t know this new person, so all of the panic in the situation is panic that you brought with you from the past and is not relevant to the current scenario

For whatever reason your body believes that the stakes are very high. They might be, but even if they were, wouldn’t it be more adaptive to face the situation with the level head? Most people can do this 100% of the time and I bet that you could get there too

nmcfarl 35 minutes ago||
I don’t think most people can do this 100% of the time. I actually think if you can do this 100% of the time you’re probably a zen master.

I think most people over the age of 25 can do this maybe 80% of the time. And most of them can keep it under control enough that they only look a little dysfunctional, the other 20% of the time. (although I definitely know a few extroverts who don’t look dysfunctional, they look like the life of the party – but that’s them being dysfunctional and stressing out and trying to make everyone love them. That’s their 20%.)

hypercube33 1 hour ago|||
Scary that I can relate to this and then am reminded by the star trek episode they make you relive a memory every few minutes forever. Never put these two together, oof.
doginasuit 1 hour ago||
I think the most valuable thing here is to not jump to a negative assumption about people, something I wish it followed more closely in its other points. Virtually anyone who has a very different perspective than the group will face friction, and handling that friction gracefully isn't something that comes naturally to most people. People can get stuck in a pattern of handling the friction poorly, but the group as a whole also has the opportunity for grace and understanding that can diffuse the problem, if that is something that is valuable to them.
legacynl 30 minutes ago|
I'm someone who is good at those situations, and what I've learned is that no matter how much you disagree, there's always something that you can agree on. If you're stuck in disagreement, zoom out, and try to move back to a position that you both can agree on.
labrador 5 minutes ago||
As a anti-social person and a misanthrope, these are all tips for amateurs that assume you must be in a relationship with other people. This is not true. One can be a hermit and enjoy the solitude. My comment here is not designed for replies and social interaction. I'm making it to test my idea against the wisdom of the crowds in case someone can enlighten me about where I might be wrong. I'm seeking information, not society. This is grating to me even as I write it. Who do I think I am? That doesn't make it any less true.
dragochat 1 minute ago||
some of these _are_ true _good_ advice for most ppl, beginner level as they may be, as by default they have been trained to be waaaaay too agreeable
Sol- 2 hours ago||
This seems to be a very peculiar and adversarial interpretation of anti-social. I am relatively anti-social and consider this a bit of a character flaw, but would generally say that I do not assume the worst in others and am relatively introspective. It just doesn't come naturally to me, but that does not mean that I think less of others.
armchairhacker 1 hour ago||
You’re probably “asocial”

Asocial = avoids people, quiet, misses social cues. i.e. doesn’t attract people

Antisocial = cruel, obnoxious, remorseless. i.e. actively repels people

gwbas1c 27 minutes ago||
I read this article as a joke; IE, how to NOT behave.
ernesto905 1 hour ago||
> when all hope is lost in conversation, retreat into your self

This speaks to me quite a bit, particularly around unfalsifiable topics I'll have with friends/family, such as theology. If we define hope as the idea they'll change their mind and agree with me, seems not much one can do but retreat into themself, right? I suppose I can sympathize with their sentiment before I retreat into myself, but taking this bullet point at face value I'm unsure how to make this a pro-social experience :/

appreciatorBus 1 hour ago||
It’s possible to be social with people who hold opinions you disagree with. Being social and recognizing or even celebrating our shared humanity does not require having the same opinions and ideas as the other person.
em-bee 15 minutes ago|||
yes, but that means that hope is not lost yet. for me, all hope is lost when people stop listening if i said something they disagree with, even if i follow up with something they do agree with (which is usually my tactic in this case, find common ground, and then expand from there). to be social with people who disagree requires both sides to want to continue the conversation. both sides need to believe that having the same opinions is not required. if they don't want to continue then i can try as i might, but at that point hope is lost.
bityard 51 minutes ago|||
100% agree. Unfortunately tribalism is very trendy right now, especially on social media and online communities.
weett 1 hour ago||
Maybe the trying to get people to change their mind part is where you're going wrong
zetanor 59 minutes ago||
online sociability protip: writing in all lowercase outside of instant messaging comes across (to me) as weirdly manipulative, status seeking behavior. you want people to read your stuff and to come to some form of conclusion—you wouldn't be writing, editing and posting text otherwise—but you feel you have to put your ideas and your vulnerability behind a moat of detached, nonchalant aesthetics

nothing personnel, kid

pirates 29 minutes ago|
hacker news is not such a loftier place that I treat it much differently than instant messaging. but even still, there are plenty of reasons why someone might write how they do. i promise you that i am not trying to be manipulative or status seeking, i just have auto capitalization turned off and I don’t give two shits if weirdos like you don’t like it.

nothing personal kid

reedf1 2 hours ago||
The other day someone described themselves to me as an 'empath' which was odd, because in the context of the discussion it was invalidating to hear. And ironic considering they hadn't forseen how I would take it.

Some people have ultimate confidence in their social judgements and the true sign of empathy is a kind of meta-empathy that allows you to consider truly alternative understandings of the world i.e. empathy for empathy.

nathanaldensr 1 hour ago||
That's not empathy, though. The word "empathy" has been co-opted to mean "understanding someone else's point of view," but that's not what empathy is. Empathy is feeling others' feelings. I'm actually empathetic in that I sometimes experience an emotional response (limbic) similar to an intense emotional response I witness others having, especially if they're a person close to me. This is very different than making a conscious attempt (prefrontal cortex) at intellectual understanding of someone's emotions.
arowthway 1 hour ago|||
Sounds like cognitive empathy vs affective empathy.
reedf1 1 hour ago|||
I'm not so sure I agree - well maybe I do, I meant literally feeling in my statement not merely understanding. e.g. I eat meat - but I can literally feel the cringing sadness and disgust of a vegan if I imagine their perspective, even if I disagree.
SecretDreams 1 hour ago||
Ultimately, there are no absolute personality traits. Someone might align to specific attributes, but they are not without fault and can still easily put their foot in their mouth on occasion.

An introspective, empathetic, thoughtful person might still accidentally say something that an external observer might perceive as having been said without thought or consideration to the feelings of others.

The above is not meant to be contradictory to your point, just a consideration to the general faults all humans hold.

pickleglitch 46 minutes ago||
> exploit your immediate network;

Sorry, networks, in this context, are too social for me, as they involve other people.

djyde 37 minutes ago|
This isn't a personality issue at all—it's pure disrespect. If someone treated me like that, I wouldn't befriend them or open up to them either. Sincerity is a two-way street.
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