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Posted by jeromechoo 2 days ago

Programming Still Sucks(www.stvn.sh)
702 points | 327 commentspage 2
dwd 2 days ago|
Oh man...

Really enjoyed it, and went back and read "Programming Sucks" which is also full of delightful nuggets like this:

"The only reason coders’ computers work better than non-coders’ computers is coders know computers are schizophrenic little children with auto-immune diseases and we don’t beat them when they’re bad."

GoblinSlayer 2 days ago|
I kill any process that misbehaves.
arian_ 2 days ago||
Programming has always sucked. The difference now is that we have AI agents that can do the sucking for us, and somehow that made everything worse because now we have to debug code we didn't write, can't fully understand, and definitely can't explain in a code review.
firemelt 2 days ago||
why do you think programming is sucked?
fransje26 2 days ago||
Just use AI to explain the code to you. /s
SaucyWrong 2 days ago||
This was beautiful. I also appreciated the backlink to Peter Welch’s spiritual ancestor to this essay, which I had forgotten how to find, and had the joy of reading again.
jrm4 2 days ago||
Yes. And the reason for all of this is the same as it's always been, and requires literally no technical knowledge to understand.

There is essentially zero accountability for harm.

There is no button on your toaster that blows up the toaster.

But there's a link in your email. And that's a button.

And no one has figured out how to punish Microsoft or Apple or Google for allowing that to continue, though we do this just fine elsewhere.

Someone or something has to be punished, regulated or otherwise hurt for anything to change here.

stevenlangbroek 2 days ago|
I agree, but would dare you to go one step further: there is no accountability for harm because, being the "bourgeoisie" under neoliberal capitalism, capital insulates them from consequences.
jrm4 2 days ago||
Probably not wrong, and I mean, lots of economics words there (ah, my college major) but I personally just think that the path forward here is more practical and boring.

Gotta sue people and companies. Gotta get governments to do more regulation. I know this place is kind of allergic to that, but hey.

Waterluvian 2 days ago||
I’m trying to piece together a thought. Is it right if my employer wants to “own” the gain in productivity from these tools?

I’m being paid the same. I’m still doing 40 hours. The huge gains in productivity are not mine to enjoy, it seems.

rileymat2 2 days ago||
Unless the method of increasing productivity increases it disproportionately for you or you find a way to outcompete in productivity gains, I am not sure that ever happens.

Edit: To put a finer point on this, generally,employed people don't get paid more for the excess value they produce, they get paid more for for the delta in perceived value between them and the next best option to fill the position (on a grand statistical scale for careers).

* There are exceptions to this in the form of commission based jobs.

Jensson 2 days ago||
That goes for everything, you wont take a job that pays much less than the other jobs you can get, customers do the same with products they buy. In the end just a few percent go to profits for most companies, extremely few companies pay out more profits than they pay in salaries.

So all that productivity increase didn't result in higher profits either, end users mostly captured it by getting a lot of free services that previously used to cost money. International communication used to be extremely expensive but today I exchange hundreds of messages with people across the sea daily for almost nothing.

rileymat2 2 days ago||
In a competitive environment, yes.

But, tech has been particularly monopolistic/duopolistic and anticompetitive in a lot of different ways. Avoiding being treated as a commodity the same way many of the employees of those companies have.

crnkofe 1 day ago|||
The way we got to 40 hours workweek wasn't really through productivity increase despite productivity increasing substantially in the era before less work hours became standard. It was due to rebellion by the workers and syndicates. I expect any further changes will require standing up to the elite who's been preparing for that moment by buying themselves islands and private bomb shelters.

The productivity increase religion has never really been about workers. Any increase in productivity is used to reduce the workforce count and to bleed dry existing workers who now have to overproduce in place of their fired coworkers. Its sad how occasionally some people obsess about their productivity on HN as-if they're unaware that they're buying into the very thing that will get them fired and/or burned out.

01100011 2 days ago|||
I don't pay for the tokens I use, so why would I expect to be compensated for it?

Hell, I paid for my own programming environment (SlickEdit) years ago with my own money and still didn't expect to get paid more. I did it because it helped me deliver higher quality work more efficiently and I was proud of that.

doug_durham 2 days ago|||
You can absolutely capture the value of your additional productivity. Strike out on your own. Start your own company or consulting firm. That has always been the answer. Why would you think it would be any different now?
viccis 2 days ago|||
"Ah you textile workers are so whiny. If you're mad at your jobs being obsoleted by massive machine factories, why not just buy a few dozen such factories? Strike out on your own."

Yeah man I don't know if mommy and daddy are paying your rent and healthcare (as I often see from people with this attitude). Or maybe you're one of the 45 year old tech workers whose mid life crisis involves a music project no one will listen to and going to work on some startups with your FIRE nest egg until you come crawling back to a big tech company. But for now I, like most millennial Americans, am reliant on wage labor to afford a dignified life in a tolerable town.

tobr 1 day ago|||
> maybe you're one of the 45 year old

> But for I, like most millennial Americans

Someone who turns 45 in 2026 is a millennial though.

Waterluvian 2 days ago||||
True. I wasn’t born American so there is that. I have some of the lesser promoted freedoms like getting to think critically about if this is what I really want to be doing in life.
stevenlangbroek 2 days ago|||
> Ah you textile workers are so whiny...

hell yeah baby, I'm a proud Luddite.

rileymat2 2 days ago|||
Of course, but not as an employee
justin66 2 days ago|||
https://www.epi.org/productivity-pay-gap/
stevenlangbroek 2 days ago|||
under neoliberal capitalism? no. it's late, but not too late, to join a union.
thrance 2 days ago||
Careful, you're dangerously close to rediscovering Marxism.
quxbar 2 days ago||
I don't agree with everything this piece concludes, but I do admire getting to read through a whole HN article without feeling the sheen of AI co-authorship.
redfloatplane 2 days ago||
It’s funny you say that as about halfway through I was beginning to wonder if this was at least Claude-edited. Absolutely no shade to the author meant, I think it’s a thoughtful article, but I _did_ feel the sheen of AI co-authorship.

It raises the question of how much text I have read that I did not realise was LLM-generated. I think I have a decent nose for it but I’m not perfect, there must be false negatives (and false positives, as it certainly might be with this article). What will it mean when I can no longer tell the difference?

Edit: thinking on it a little more, I hope the author doesn’t feel insulted by my comment given the subject matter of the article at hand. Sorry, it’s early morning! I’m sure I am wrong about my assessment. Which now really makes me wonder about the above

stevenlangbroek 2 days ago|||
Hey! I'm not insulted at all. My position is that of a Luddite: I think technology is neutral, but deployment is not. My critique is structural, and I don't blame people in or out of tech for adopting AI to be able to survive.

No AIs were harmed in the writing of this post, either physically or by the sharing of earlier (cringe) drafts.

farmerbb 2 days ago||
Thank you for writing this piece, resonated a lot with me. Looking forward to reading more from you in the future.
nz 1 day ago||||
> What will it mean when I can no longer tell the difference?

It just means that you will have to evaluate prose on its own merits (aesthetic, logical, etc).

The main problem with LLM-assisted writing is that effort-to-write is now much lower than effort-to-read -- the LLM-prose-style is simply an imperfection that can sometimes help the reader bail on a piece (and there might be false-positives).

Most people are already biased against reading long pieces, and seem to skim them more often than not. These people are _probably_ a little worse off than before, but they are not paying full-price for being hoodwinked. The people who end up paying full-price are probably going to become more sophisticated in how they choose what to read. I can't tell if this will be good/bad for publishers and/or advertisers.

pona-a 2 days ago|||
Pangram agrees with you. About 25% of the text trips the detection threshold, mostly towards the later half.

I don't want to make any accusations, just give some evidence to the above comment.

stevenlangbroek 2 days ago||
I have bad news for you...
pona-a 2 days ago||
Believe me or not, that's good news for me. I actually really enjoyed your writing, and I'm glad that feeling wasn't misplaced. I'm sorry if my remarks came across as mean-spirited...
stevenlangbroek 2 days ago||
Nothing to apologize for!
dshacker 2 days ago||
You're absolutely right - this is not X, but Y.

----

I'm absolutely tired at work on how many people are writing with em-dashes with obvious AI prose. I feel a little bit insulted but then I remember we all participate in this charade.

stevenlangbroek 2 days ago||
As a typography nerd, I am also mourning the death of typographic style. Em-dashes and ligatures <3
fnoef 2 days ago||
Isn’t it a bit ironic that a (presumably statically generated) blog post about “programming sucks” is being chocked to death by HN?
stevenlangbroek 2 days ago||
Yeah this was just a failure on my part, I was too lazy to go the ISR route and was on the Cloudflare free plan. I was not expecting any traffic haha.
fnoef 2 days ago||
Get a VPS and host it there. Costs less than a cup of coffee a month, with tens of TB of traffic.

Nice article by the way!

stevenlangbroek 2 days ago||
oh I probably should, but I'm kinda busy with checks notes trying to feed my family :D
BirAdam 1 day ago||
Not really, no.

As this post was inspired by "Programming Sucks," that the traffic generated by it made something break is quite on point.

gregsadetsky 2 days ago||
Archive link as the site seems down - https://web.archive.org/web/20260507003341/https://www.stvn....
henry_bone 2 days ago||
Let me add to the chorus of admiration for this piece of writing. Poignant, accurate, appropriately cynical.
imrozim 2 days ago|
Im 19 trying to break into teach and third exactly what scares me they killed the apprenticeship before i could get in how do you become Sara if there's no Ben left to learn from.
fatata123 2 days ago|
[dead]
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