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Posted by canergl 1 day ago

Show HN: Countries where you can leave your MacBook at a random coffee shop(vouchatlas.com)
Hi HN,

I wanted to know which countries you can simply leave your laptop at a Starbucks, and where you can't.

Feel free to click and vote.

59 points | 77 comments
esperent 1 day ago|
Voting on a country level here is too coarse, this poll is invalid.

I live in Vietnam and I can see it's getting colored red already but that's unfair.

If you're in Ho Chi Minh City or Hanoi, then for sure you couldn't safely leave your laptop in a cafe. But if youuuUse the edit icon to pin, add or delete clips.'re in a smaller town then you'll be fine. But doesn't that apply to basically every country?

I assume that the majority of people voting here are in one of the big cities and it's coloring the results. But what it really means is that English speakers are clustered in the places where it's not safe, not that the whole country is unsafe.

On the other hand, I see Vietnam is currently green for walkable and that's hilarious, it's one of the least walkable countries in the world. Pavements here are places to do business/park motorbikes, not to mention the heat makes it highly uncomfortable. There's a ratio of ~2 motorbikes per person, nobody walks here.

aix1 8 hours ago||
> Voting on a country level here is too coarse, this poll is invalid.

> I live in Vietnam and I can see it's getting colored red already but that's unfair.

Also, it's a tiny sample: eight votes to represent a country of 100 million people.

missingcolours 11 hours ago|||
Yeah, same in the US. I would not leave my laptop in a cafe in SF. I would in the Austin suburbs. I might or might not in Chicago depending on the neighborhood and cafe.
ShinyLeftPad 11 hours ago|||
There's many issues with this.

- MacBooks are not very attractive theft targets anyway, when properly locked you can only sell them for parts. Wallet or camera or non-Apple laptop would be much more telling.

- Except for Japan, most places it depends on specifics. Who is around, where exactly is the branch, time of day/year (in a couple of countries petty theft rises before Lunar New Year when struggling people especially need money), did you leave a whole setup on your table or is it just lonely closed-lid laptop so someone can pretend it's theirs.

- "Safe to walk at night" isn't what people usually mean by "walkable". Most of the countries in the top are not "walkable".

- This does not account for race and gender. Some white male techbro is probably fine walking alone at night in most places in Thailand, but a woman or an Asian person is another story. The other year multiple people were kidnapped and it caused a big drop in tourism, and a few years earlier double murder of Westerners had some official say the woman should be either ugly or not wear bikini.

- China in the top is funny, I'm aware of multiple knife attacks on foreigners (one happened in central Beijing and I was in the city at the time).

MrDrMcCoy 1 hour ago|||
> in a couple of countries petty theft rises before Lunar New Year when struggling people especially need money

I'm ignorant. Why does the Lunar New Year increase the need for funds?

ktallett 6 hours ago|||
Even in Japan it depends on specifics. Things get stolen there too.
powerapple 1 day ago|||
The page says Starbucks, not a random area, random coffee shop. I think it is a valid test. Starbucks is properly staffs, in reasonably busy area, the shop is enclosed.
elcritch 1 day ago|||
Yeah but still way too granular.

There’s 50 US states. Many are very different.

It’d be even better if it was city based.

kotaKat 1 day ago||
You'll also need to just chop New York into two and split the city off. NYC data skews the rest of the state so hard...

(north country anectedote: we leave our doors unlocked and laptops, keys, wallets, and iphones straight up in plain view in parking lots up here in rural nowhere. people are dumb.)

dangus 13 hours ago||||
Starbucks locations in the US are not limited to areas that are low crime. They are as ubiquitous as McDonald’s if not more so.

Mostly I think this website is just a stereotype collector and in that sense is very counterproductive. It’s going to be a bunch of people who want to report their biases.

hulitu 1 day ago|||
> The page says Starbucks, not a random area, random coffee shop.

Yes but the HN title says "random coffee shop".

rootsudo 19 hours ago||
I would say I’ve had great experience in hcmc and Hanoi shops and left it unattended, matters most which shop but for the majority no issue at all.

Leaving it in that cliche highland coffee shop location in D1 by that street, yeah, no.

Indonesia too, no issue across Jakarta, Depok, Yogya, Bali, Lombok, etc

I’m surprised at Japan, I would thought it be a zero. No issue at any location at all.

likeclockwork 16 hours ago||
There is no coffee shop anywhere in the world where I would leave my laptop unattended.

Even if things are unlikely to go wrong the level of avoidable risk is simply too high.

A $3000 piece of my personal or worse employer's property and I'm just supposed to "trust"? Not worth it.

puppymaster 7 hours ago|
you are taking this too literally. try to see it as proxy for questions like 'will i get my wallet back from uber drive' or 'will my purse be snatched by street scooters'
kuri-sun 24 minutes ago||
japan is quite safe actually, I sometimes do it when I go to the bathroom
01jonny01 1 day ago||
There was a time you could leave your valuables in most teashops in the UK and they would be safe.

Not no more. We lost our high trust society in most places.

rayiner 1 day ago|
Relevant LKY: https://youtu.be/b_6H26fpZp8
malshe 3 hours ago||
I would like to see a ranking for countries where you can ship RAM without it getting stolen on the way. I just got mine stolen by someone at Amazon last week so I’m a bit bitter right now!
kalmuraee 5 hours ago||
I can bet with my Macbook to have it in any random coffee shop in Riyadh, Jeddah, or any other City in Saudi , and I can say that is Applicable to Cities like Dubai Doha, these cities have a high level of prosperity, people are there don’t have to steal, and every worker in the country already by law have working permits otherwise he couldn’t stay
nashashmi 35 minutes ago|
Those countries have pruned-controlled immigration systems. What leads to sudden disruptions in observances of law are newcomers who are not familiar with how things work in the new culture. If someone were to walk into town where all the shops and stores keep their doors open and have a box on the counter for payment when someone feels like they need something, it would be a strange sight. And this person would wrestle with the idea of taking something and not paying in full with a bunch of pros and cons. Maybe after some time he will understand better how to proceed.
ookblah 1 day ago||
in korea u can literally leave ur wallet, laptop, expensive bag at your table and go eat lunch or do something else for an hr and come back and it'll still be there (and people are used to it). one of the few places that surprised me more than japan lol.

but dont leave ur bike or umbrella out.

cyber_kinetist 1 day ago||
South Korea has CCTVs all over the place (especially in the cities), and even small-scale robbery is treated as a very serious crime that often it's not worth the risk.
horanglabs 1 day ago|||
It’s not only the CCTVs, haha. In Korea, even petty theft is culturally treated as a pretty serious offense. People generally see stealing itself as crossing a big line.
rayiner 1 day ago||
Wow enforcing laws and cultural taboos deters crime?
Mars008 15 hours ago|||
[flagged]
joebates 12 hours ago||
Of course, if we could just persecute minorities again, that would reduce the theft.

Please know that I'm being sarcastic.

Mars008 4 hours ago||
[flagged]
eowln 13 hours ago|||
Throwing criminals in jail is meanie mean. It’s your fault they are forced to live a life of crime, so you deserve to be robbed.
ookblah 1 day ago|||
yeah it's not just the CCTVs, very ingrained culturally somehow, at least for this type of theft (stealing personal stuff from cafes/restaurants/etc)
fouc 11 hours ago||
what if other people want to use that table? is it okay to move their laptop/bags off?

I actually find it annoying if people put stuff on tables and then walk away for an hour or more, hogging a spot that could be used by others.

ookblah 7 hours ago||
nope, u don't touch it. everyone does it and accepts it and it's not that annoying i guess.
sparrish 1 day ago||
Which is it? A random coffee shop or a Starbucks.

In the USA, I could leave my laptop at a small town coffee shop without any trouble, but never a Starbucks, which are only in larger towns and cities.

canergl 1 day ago|
Thanks, I couldn't imagine such a distinction initially. I have added a separation between Local and Chain coffeeshops in the site.
archleaf 23 hours ago||
I think poster means a local area, not a locally-owned coffee shop. Meaning in NYC it doesn't matter if it's a Starbucks or Locally owned shop, you still wouldn't leave the laptop.

However, if it's a local coffee shop in the middle of Nebraska, you would be ok.

JCharante 1 day ago||
> Verification not ready, try again.

Japan is trusted enough to leave laptops in but not trusted enough to vote :/

JCharante 1 day ago|
> Couldn't verify you're human — please try again.

I'm on safari without an adblocker, not sure what sketchy stuff my ASN is up to

codedokode 1 day ago|
Interesting, the map author marked Crimea as part of Russia, but for some reason doesn't mark 4 other Ukranian regions as Russian. Cannot choose the right side?
gymbeaux 1 day ago|
Surely they’re using a third party mapping library and they have absolutely 0 control over what the borders look like in disputed areas.
plastic041 14 hours ago||
Seems right. This site uses `React Simple Maps` library with `Natural Earth` map data. Natural earth marks crimea Russian territory[0] in their "default" map data.

[0]: https://github.com/nvkelso/natural-earth-vector/issues/391

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