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Posted by arkadiyt 21 hours ago

Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid(arkadiyt.com)
941 points | 485 commentspage 4
dingdingdang 21 hours ago|
Excellent practical guide and pictures, if OP is around on this thread: well done! Your future self is going to appreciative too when this needs repeating at some point!
Fervicus 17 hours ago||
We need a Framework laptop equivalent for cars.
boldlybold 12 hours ago|
I've been saying this for years! I agree.
inahga 19 hours ago||
Has anyone experienced a case where they needed an over-the-air safety update/recall performed, but weren't able to because they removed the cellular modem?

I'd like to think failure to apply an OTA safety update would trigger a mail-out notification requesting you bring the vehicle into the dealer. But that's probably optimistic...

skiing_crawling 18 hours ago||
Its probably an antipattern on a car to need an OTA "safety" update in the first place.
fc417fc802 18 hours ago||
The safety update is physically removing the modem IMO. Can't be wirelessly broken into if you aren't on the network to begin with.
HDBaseT 14 hours ago||
What type of fucking "safety" update could be performed?

If the car has a recall or safety issue with the suspension part failing prematurely, what possibly could some software nonsense do?

inahga 12 hours ago||
Tesla https://www.tesla.com/support/vehicle-firmware-prevent-autos...

Ford https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a70513450/ford-4-million-v...

GM https://www.themanual.com/auto/gm-brake-fluid-warning-recall...

I think Chrysler does it too, but I only find mention of the time they bricked a bunch of Wranglers with a bad OTA update.

Broadly I don't think it's hard to imagine a software update being safety critical if the software is used in a safety critical system.

pugworthy 12 hours ago||
As much as I should really care about this, I have to say... I don't. I should, but I don't.

To me it's a little bit like, "I love these new cellphones but I'm keeping it in airplane mode all the time because I don't want it online"

I mean what's the point of buying a new car if you're going to cripple features that are so much better because it's connected? Sure, use CarPlay or such, but to say forever end things like over the air software updates? Anything to prevent Kia from theoretically detecting sexual activity I suppose [1].

Just buy an old car. Or convert a classic into an EV [2].

There are A LOT of things in our lives that can be completely torn apart if one wants to. Glass is a vastly inferior window covering. Do you know how easy it breaks, and people can just look into it.

1 If you ask me, there's a whole whitepaper to be written about how to detect sexual activity in a Kia.

2 https://www.bugeyeguys.com/category/electric-bugeye/

JoheyDev888 11 hours ago||
You buy a $40k car and it's still monetizing you. The hardware is just the entry fee. The real product is everything you do inside it.
Animats 19 hours ago||
How good a position can you get from GPS today in receive only mode?

You can download and store Open Street Map for individual states. Map data doesn't have to come in over the air. That's not the problem. It's enhancing GPS with cell phone tower data that's the problem. That requires a cell connection.

ssl-3 16 hours ago||
Resolution of less than 1 meter is normal with a decent view of the sky and a lack of interference. GPS itself is always receive-only on our end as consumers.

What problem are we trying to solve here? At this point in time, guided navigation with completely offline maps and GPS has already been a no-brainer off-the-shelf thing for decades.

mmooss 15 hours ago||
> GPS itself is always receive-only on our end as consumers.

AFAIK it's almost always enhanced by things cell tower data, wifi network data, and external data sources (besides the satellites). Look up GPS/GNSS enhancement and augmentation for the latter.

ssl-3 15 hours ago||
I mean exactly what I wrote: "GPS itself" means GPS, itself.

Not GPS and WAAS. Not GPS and RTK. Not GPS + wifi + BT + cellular. I didn't mean any of those things, so I did not write any of those things.

If the thing is more than GPS -- by itself -- then that's outside the scope of what I was referring to with the juxtaposition of the words "GPS" and "itself".

(If a thing -- by itself -- can be better specified to be that way using concise phrasing, then I'm all ears.)

garaetjjte 19 hours ago|||
I don't think cell tower connection will give you any more precision, GNSS fix will be much more accurate. (within few meters)

You could get more accurate fix with RTK data, but I'm not sure if that's actually widely used. And in any case that doesn't require active communications either, you could get correction data from satellite broadcasts too.

stackghost 19 hours ago|||
>That requires a cell connection.

Technically it only requires an antenna that can listen on the LTE band (or even GSM). Trilaterating based on cell towers with a hackRF or other SDR is a fun exercise.

themafia 18 hours ago||
GPS is exceedingly accurate compared to cellular signals on it's own. What it isn't is fast. So the "enhanced GPS" is mostly just proving satellite ephemerides so your GPS device can lock onto the overhead satellites faster.

If your device has zero GPS signal then you can get ~100m accuracy from the cellular signals alone. If your device doesn't have "enhanced GPS" then you can get ~1m accuracy from the GPS signals alone.

fc417fc802 18 hours ago||
I think towers were historically already much more accurate than 100m in urban areas.

Note that this changed with 5G beamforming. The new towers have a much better idea of where you are. (My understanding (thanks to other HN commenters) is that technically it's possible to do beamforming without deriving precise 3D coordinates but that this isn't how it's done in practice.)

ro_bit 19 hours ago||
> Everything that relies on a data connection will no longer work. This includes things like over-the-air updates as well as Toyota cloud-based services and SOS functionality

I hate how this is a trade off. It’s totally possible for cars to broadcast their location only if the SOS is pressed or the crash sensor is triggered, but it feels like there’s no way to have that without also having everything else.

IFC_LLC 13 hours ago||
I bet in a couple of years you'll have to go straight to the dealership to fix your car, because it won't start.

On the other hand, as mentioned by others: Why bother if you use CarPlay?

alxjsn 19 hours ago|
Another method is to disconnect the antenna and add a resistor so it acts as a dummy load. Here is an example with a Tacoma: https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/simpler-solution-for-dis...
pryelluw 11 hours ago|
This is what I thought about doing instead. Removing the whole module seems overkill. Removing the signal should be enough to disable it.
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