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Posted by cdrnsf 3 hours ago

Google Declaring War on the Web(tante.cc)
310 points | 193 commentspage 3
jppope 2 hours ago||
I'm confused how the strategy works in the long run. If fewer people are incentivized to build websites on novel topics, there will be less content in general and less training data... plus AI overview results see less ad conversions and therefor less ad revenue. Whats the long game? I get that the paradigm is changing but this seems like its not going to help them maintain their dominance.
kaoD 2 hours ago||
Ah, that's where you're wrong. There is no long term. Investors want results now. "Later" is for the greater fools.
tom_ 2 hours ago||
What if there is no long game? Just people at Google optimising for their current KPIs.
xmcp123 2 hours ago||
Kind of curious how it would pan out, if there was a government enforced meta tag one could add to signal what the data could be used for - for example “no-ai”.

That would allow people to still let Google to access their site, but restrict its usage. Similar for open source projects on GitHub, etc.

afavour 2 hours ago||
The tech giants already violated existing copyright laws when scraping for AI content and faced very few consequences. So far the government has shown an inability to enforce anything.
fc417fc802 11 minutes ago|||
> inability

Unwillingness. The government (at least in the US) appears to be happy with the status quo because competitive AI is viewed as a strategic necessity.

xmcp123 2 hours ago|||
So far, yeah. The courts shrugged and said it was allowed under current law.

So the solution to that would be “change the law”.

kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 2 hours ago||
> government enforced

The thing everyone needs to ask before advocating for something "government enforced" is "what would happen if this was in the hands of a hostile government?"

And then remember that (a) just because it's not hostile to you today, doesn't mean it won't be tomorrow, and (b) one man's "hostile" is another man's "utopia."

mjrpes 1 hour ago|||
The thing everyone needs to ask before advocating for laissez faire is "what does a hostile and monopolistic search engine giant like Google gain from us doing nothing?"

And then remember that just because Google is not hostile to you today, doesn't mean it won't be tomorrow.

xmcp123 1 hour ago||
It seems pretty obvious that they are hostile
xmcp123 2 hours ago|||
Well, when I said “I’m curious” it was true. I’m actually curious.

So how do you think a meta noai tag would be used by a hostile government?

It would be something the website owner set.

xp84 2 hours ago||
Step 1: Be really lax in enforcing compliance with it so that nobody complies with it.

Step 2: Abruptly switch to iron-fist enforcement where suddenly people get jail time for violations, but only for entities that have been critical of the government.

This is by no means the only or most likely way, just what I could come up with in 30 seconds. There may be much better "evil government" strategies.

jumploops 2 hours ago||
It looks like Google has taken a note out of Facebook's "lose trust" playbook.

Facebook had a huge opportunity in the post-AI world: real humans.

Instead of focusing on connections, they've been optimizing their properties for doomscrolling.

Google, similarly, has lost the plot on what made them trustworthy in the first place: navigating to citable content.

Both companies started on this trend well before AI, but this might be the final nail in their respective coffins[0].

[0]Yes they'll likely still be profitable for a long time, but the Bell Labs-esque downfall has begun (imo).

jfengel 2 hours ago|
I don't think people cared all that much about whether or not the content was citable. You can't cite Wikipedia, and that's not going anywhere.

Facebook may well fail when people don't enjoy it. But all Google ever promised was information, of variously dubious quality, and that's still their draw.

jumploops 2 hours ago||
Fair, citable is probably the wrong term.

This is a problem Google has been battling forever, with all the SEO click spam.

In either case, Google was the tool that many people used to find "trustworthy" information (citable or not), compared to the other tools online.

da02 56 minutes ago||
> Or wake up in a slopified AOL kind of environment where your access to information is limited to what Google’s synthetic text extruders deem relevant.

They mentioned AOL. Remember back when AOL bought Time Warner in a "merger of equals", but it really wasn't. Then this fear AOL will become your telephone company because AOL Instant Messenger was so popular? Then, MSFT won the browser wars and disbanded the IE team and came up with a whole .Net strategy to takeover the Web. Then came Firefox, Google, Web 2.0, etc. I remember Dave Winer writing how Google was making real stuff while Netscape was doing mostly hacks.

David is now Goliath. So I am all for Google taking over the Web. They will go bankrupt doing it. They couldn't even make Google+ a thing. What was that anyway? I lack a Ph.d to understand that thing.

A few startups there, a bunch of open e-commerce standards here, and bunch of market value gone after the AI bubble... Google (and many others) are going against Artists who can Code. Who knows what delights will come.

munchler 2 hours ago||
If Google stops driving traffic to websites, won't those websites stop allowing Google to crawl their pages? The pendulum might be in motion, but it seems like there should still be some natural equilibrium that it's heading to.
xp84 1 hour ago||
They don't think they really need any more content outside of a few deals they can cut directly with publishers. And they already have YouTube, which produces limitless free content for them to use as they see fit. My blog from 20 years ago, or indeed all of our blogs today, are not something Google feels will be any loss to their product.

Someone will search for "Kylie Jenner" and they will get some kind of shopping opportunity (with Google getting a commission) and links to her profile on YouTube. And maybe some publisher content on the subject. In all cases they'll probably want to angle to get more of an "aGeNtIc" experience, where Google just reads you the story or buys the lipstick for you, without you leaving google.com.

yborg 2 hours ago|||
There won't be "websites" anymore, it will all just be Google. Other behemoths that generate original content (that aren't AI) like sports, news, entertainment will either be big enough to sign individual deals on pain of litigation or just force-scraped (as is happening now) by bots that are indistinguishable from human users.
Gigachad 2 hours ago||
We got to that point a while ago. Many of the major social media’s are essentially uncrawlable.

Communities have moved from public forums to private discords. Most of the major social media’s are unviewable without an account.

WarmWash 54 minutes ago||
Google made an egalitarian web, where money doesn't matter and attention does. A currency that everyone on Earth richest to poorest has a roughly equal amount of. I think almost everyone takes that for granted, and focuses purely on the negatives (you're not paying, therefore you are the product, kept in place by bait we call services)

On the flip side, and I'm all for it, we can go to everything paywalled. The downside of course will be a whole class of people who cannot afford to participate on the internet. But these service providers will be working for you, the customer.

Pick your poison.

Barbing 2 hours ago||
I thought this was going to be about having to use your corporate approved phone to scan reCATCHA QR codes. Was just able to opt out of my first one but obviously won’t be able to forever.
nekzn 1 hour ago||
Websites brought this on themselves. Have you tried visiting one? Popups upon popups upon ads upon cookie banners upon notification permission prompts. I’m not going to miss that. Nobody is going to miss that.

Think of AI distillation as some kind of improved Reader Mode feature.

People never wanted to visit your website; they just wanted the information that your website held. Now they can get to the meat without having to deal with the bones.

snicky 32 minutes ago|
> People never wanted to visit your website; they just wanted the information that your website held.

Well, no. It is a boomer talk, but in the 90s the web was so fragmented and unpolished that websites usually looked very different from each other. People were writing their own HTML (and CSS came later). "Home pages" were some form of an art. Not the highest one to be frank, but the ecosystem was quite interesting. People did visit those websites not only to get the information, but to enjoy those quirky forms.

xiaoluolyg 24 minutes ago|
cotent is dying
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