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Posted by mooreds 4 hours ago

To have a moral stance on AI is to be an outcast, and it sucks(musings.martyn.berlin)
109 points | 232 commentspage 5
juleiie 4 hours ago|
I like that AI sucks

It’s the best scenario for AI to be like these robots from Star Wars forever. Silly, barely competent, comic relief. So, so much better than any doomer-philosopher blogpost.

LLM will always be clumsy, endearing, silicone regard unable to function without commands. I only worry about the jepa

cm2012 4 hours ago||
I mean if you had the same reaction when personal computers were made, you would also be an outcast. They also put whole industries out of business and caused huge pollution and etc. There is no real difference. But you have a right to withdraw from the world and be a luddite.
the13 3 hours ago||
AI is now much better and much more accurate than it was even a few months ago. Use Opus 4.8, etc.

Terence Tao is more credible to me than the views OP expresses in this heart felt, well intentioned but outdated essay.

65 4 hours ago||
I do judge people for using AI. Especially engineers.

Oh, you're not smart enough to know how to write your own code? You need your hand to be held? You need to write your little prompts because reading documentation is too hard? I'll keep my skills while your brain turns to mush.

clapthewind 2 hours ago|
Is it smart to pick a path that's probably not going to be appreciated anymore? One that's probably going to lead to unemployment?
johnwheeler 4 hours ago||
> don't want to hang out with him any more because he'll have his phone with him and it's automatic for him now.

This post sounds like selfishness/self-preservation masquerading as concern for humanity and the environment. You can be anti-AI all you want. You're wasting your breath and energy.

I don't know if the quality of my life has gone up because I have these tools that help me build things in exchange for less job prospects.

All I know is: it's not up to me, I don't get to choose, and I have to adapt to the situation. I don't bitch about it and condemn others for doing the same.

Call me bitter. These are the same people who have been decrying and arguing with me that AI would never get where it is now. Stop your kicking and screaming already. It's not helping anyone.

wiseowise 3 hours ago||
> All I know is: it's not up to me, I don't get to choose, and I have to adapt to the situation. I don't bitch about it and condemn others for doing the same.

That's how Russia got into current situation, btw.

johnwheeler 3 hours ago||
But the difference is I actually like artificial intelligence and the capabilities it provides. No one can predict the future. I don't know if it's going to make my life better or worse. But if you think you're gonna start an uprising and change the world while this thing is in motion, you're deluding yourself. Might as well adapt and make the best of it. Much better than getting steamrolled and not getting anything out of it.
34asg 3 hours ago||
Get in line and join the Hitler Youth! You have no say in the matter! Lead, follow or GTFO!
johnwheeler 3 hours ago||
Wow, really?
add-sub-mul-div 4 hours ago||
I don't feel like an outcast when I'm outside of the bubble of this community and outside of an environment like a workplace where people have to demonstrate enthusiasm for AI because they fear getting penalized for not using it.

That doesn't mean everyone shares my views outside of those contexts, I just don't feel any more an outcast than for having my own view on other issues.

akomtu 4 hours ago||
Morality, good and evil, true or false, is a human way of thinking. AI sees the world thru the lens of efficiency, ROI and so on.

From https://www.vatican.va/content/leo-xiv/en/encyclicals/docume...:

> *112. Having considered the issues of responsibility and governance of AI, we must now return to our central question: what does it mean to safeguard our humanity? The risk extends beyond the misuse of certain technologies. More gravely, the pervasive technocratic paradigm in which we are immersed, and that is amplified by the digital revolution and AI, threatens to normalize an anti-human vision. In that vision, the fullness of life is equated with having more, reducing weakness, eliminating uncertainty and exerting total control. When efficiency becomes the ultimate measure of value, human beings are tempted to see themselves as a project to be optimized rather than as persons called to relationship and communion.*

behole 4 hours ago||
Post-modem incel vibes. It’s always someone/something else making the protagonist an outcast.
nlawalker 4 hours ago|
Yeah, you're not an outcast if you're the one rejecting and cutting off other people.
motohagiography 3 hours ago||
the argument reminds me of the uncanny sense of being managed. i think there was a belief that having the skills that AI synthesizes was some kind of intellectual equity, when this was more of a convention and a promise than any kind of social contract that preserves the value and meaning of ones past contributions.

imo we've been living out a decade or more of the Doorman Fallacy ( https://www.jaakkoj.com/concepts/doorman-fallacy ) where people are just liquid labour with some minimum constraints to distinguish them from chattel, where the ironic effect is everyone gets treated like they are chattel but for these minimum requirements. Maybe this will move the concerns and opinions class to act to conserve some of our cultural capital base?

mostly i am not sympathetic to the author because we are not of the same tribe, but the essential argument that there's something to conserve that we arent with AI is a worthy concern. we should look less at problems and solutions and more upstream of what we want to preserve and still grow.

jmyeet 3 hours ago|
We've been through this exact same thing with crypto and particularly NFTs. Remember those? Oh sure, a shortened URL on a blockchain is worth millions. Remember that? This quote on cognitive bias is often brought out:

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it."

So, just like with crypto, there are people inside the bubble who simply believe they're going to get rich off of whatever is happening. So instead of seeing the flaws or the exploitation, they see a system where ultimately they will benefit from it. In crypto, you saw people who missed out on Bitcoin so kept looking for the next Bitcoin in everything that came after. That's why rug pulls worked.

AI is just accelerating a trend where a few thousand people are increasingly owning everything. Automation (including AI) will just be used to further concentrate wealth. We will be minting trillionaires when the majority of the world can barely afford to live.

But there are people inside the bubble who don't see that or don't care because they think they will get rich so none of that will affect them. It's not even that intentional. A lot of people see poverty as a personal moral failure. So it's just that they view themselves as not having that moral failure.

A more realistic view is that not everyone can be Jeff Bezos. You're more likely to win the lottery than you are to end up a billionaire. Also, you're one bad day away from being unable to work. Medical event, accident, whatever. This is why we look after the most vulnerable in society because you could be one of them one day.

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