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Posted by tosh 2 days ago

U.S. Army Corps of Engineers Bay Model(en.wikipedia.org)
158 points | 42 comments
Lammy 1 hour ago|
Big fan of this thing. It's one of my favorite places to take friends who visit the Bay Area.

Something that's not mentioned in the article is that the building they occupy is a former warehouse of Marinship, a World War Ⅱ shipyard that made Liberty Ships and T2 oil tankers used to supply fuel in the Pacific Theater: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marinship

The Bay Model building has a Marinship museum in a front room. For anyone who wants to see Marinship's full story in motion, here's my HEVC encode of ‘“Tanker” — 1942–1945 War Time History of Marinship Corporation’ https://mega dot nz/file/lgtmlKIA#asrzuwGOxi6l8I5BmgyAxfKkm1zFcxvY4SYS1SxqtZk

See also Marin City, which is the remains of Marinship's on-site worker housing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marin_City,_California

e: the Bay Model building is the big square one that is center-frame starting at 04:30 in the video, Marin City at 09:23, and some beginnings of modern-day international oil politics at 12:28.

nonethewiser 31 minutes ago|
I went to SF once for a few days and this is one of the things my friend showed me in my limited time there. I remember it from time to time. It's pretty cool.

Im trying to reflect on why it was so memorable. I thought it was interesting at the time but it wasnt mind-blowing or something. I think it is just just such a unique oddity and a relic of the past. There was so much effort and space devoted to this. You'd never do something like that today.

LucasLanglois 6 hours ago||
If you don't know Tom Scott, he has done a great video 4mn vide on the model where you can see it in action: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i70wkxmumAw
MontagFTB 4 hours ago|
Yes, that’s a great video. The Mythbusters used the same model to understand Bay Area current flows during their Alcatraz escape attempt episode.
rbanffy 3 hours ago||
Someone should do a follow up episode with a person dressed up as Godzilla.
NoSalt 3 hours ago||
I am ... confused by your statement.
rbanffy 2 hours ago||
To simulate a Godzilla incursion and check if the movie where Godzilla attacks San Francisco makes an accurate depiction of what would happen.

For science.

hnav 1 hour ago||
The real question is would a Godzilla incursion be good for property values (novelty, tourism attraction, remove some housing stock) or decimate them (safety concerns, change the spirit of neighborhoods).
gumby271 1 hour ago||
Depends on the cost of Godzilla insurance, which currently is quite low. Lock in now!
hirpslop 3 hours ago||
The bay’s first LLM (large liquid model) was invented in the 1950s.
WillAdams 6 hours ago||
It's a shame that there isn't a series of articles on such models --- saw the Chesapeake Bay model (mentioned in a footnote) on a field trip when I was much younger (and it was still in active use for research I believe, yes, as my kids constantly tell me, I'm old).

Simulation used to be essentially impossible, something one dreamed of, or had to pay for time on a Cray or similar supercomputer/cluster.

Apparently, the Chesapeake Bay model was built just as that was becoming feasible:

https://easternshorebrent.com/2017/11/30/doomed-progress-the...

and has since been dismantled and a business park built on the site.

taco_emoji 23 minutes ago||
There's a similar model for the entire Great Lakes watershed at Discovery World in Milwaukee. You can even press a button to make it rain!
mattlong 5 hours ago||
I highly recommend a visit. It’s only a beautiful ferry ride and nice walk along the waterfront away from San Francisco. A refreshingly retro and analog experience.
vlad-asis 40 minutes ago||
Their models HEC-HMS and HEC-RAS are really great hydraulic models. Unfortunately, with Windows native interfaces...
carderne 5 hours ago||
John McPhee talks about a similar model for the Mississippi River in “The Control of Nature” Well worth a read. Fun stories about Hawaii and Los Angeles too, iirc.
msisk6 2 hours ago||
I haven't been there in awhile.

Back in the 90's the Autodesk tech office was next door to the Bay Model and we'd occasionally pop over for lunch and tour the place.

Great to see it still around and open to the public.

dieselgate 1 hour ago|
Was it displayed at the Civic Center or did Autodesk have an office location in Sausalito? I had never heard of this Bay Model and believe to only have seen a model at the (new location) of the Exploratorium - this was over a decade ago so don't quite recall
hnav 1 hour ago||
Autodesk was founded in Marin and later moved down. This model is 10km^2 so it's not moving anywhere.
dieselgate 1 hour ago||
Yes, the Marin Civic Center in Terra Linda is what I'm referring to.

Edit: above said "next door" so I'm curious how literal they meant this

Robdel12 5 hours ago|
This is neat to see. US army crops of engineers is a negative “word” to me after growing up in FL and they destroyed so many ecosystems. And the entire Everglades. They’re still at it now. My family has basically spent the past 30 years fighting a ware they put in on our natural creek. It killed the creek, it shrunk the flow to the size of the culvert.

So, It’s neat to see something competent! Imagine if they modeled what cutting off the natural draining to the Everglades would do :p

bumby 3 hours ago|
>It’s neat to see something competent!

The existence of negative externalities or tradeoffs does not inherently imply incompetence.

I remember reading that the USACE said the NOLA levees would not adequately protect against a category 5 hurricane but the powers that be didn’t think the added cost for a more robust design was worth the risk. If true, it doesn’t imply USACE was incompetent but that we live in an uncertain world with tough tradeoffs.

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