Top
Best
New

Posted by maltalex 14 hours ago

S&P 500 rejects SpaceX, also blocking entry for OpenAI and Anthropic(arstechnica.com)
1097 points | 391 commentspage 2
dash2 1 hour ago|
I’m seeing a lot of naive optimism about this decision.

The risk S&P takes by doing this is that they will still be forced to buy SpaceX, but a year after everybody else. Given that there is a massive amount of capital that you know will have to buy this stock in 12 months, that itself provides speculative reasons to buy it now.

The indices are in an unenviable position: a race to the bottom. The S&P 500 may be setting up its index funds simply to be the last buyer in a Ponzi scheme.

There is no guarantee that the market will find the “true value“ of SpaceX in the 12 month interval. Markets are frothy and speculative already, and they now have a built in exit liquidity provider.

3eb7988a1663 34 minutes ago|
The only decision they are making is to maintain their existing rules. Which is what a slow-moving, conservative financial instrument should do.

S&P may very well end up buying SpaceX, but it will be through the standard mechanism they have been using for decades. Not in a last second bum-rush deal that NASDAQ made to grant special favors.

One year from IPO, the insider lock-up periods will have expired, so insiders who want to get out will have had an opportunity to dump their shares in a risk-based approach without a guaranteed payout from index funds.

khriss 11 hours ago||
A lot of comments here are saying that the impact on the S&P would have been 'minimal' since the S&P is float weighted. So SpaceX would have been ~0.3% of the index.

The point isn't that the impact would have been minimal. It's that changing the rules to suit the rich and connected is the literal definition of crony capitalism. Why should SpaceX get exemptions from entry requirements to the S&P when every other company before it didn't?

Trying to justify it based on an argument that it would have been 'just' $200 billion, is absurd since that $200 billion is coming largely from the public via index funds that would have been forced to buy SpaceX shares.

matwood 9 hours ago||
> Why should SpaceX get exemptions from entry requirements to the S&P when every other company before it didn't?

The rules have never been set in stone and changed a number of times since the S&P 500 was created. The current set of rules are based around the old way of companies IPOing and growing into something that could be included. Now, companies are staying private longer and IPOing with huge valuations.

Take AI/Elon emotion out of it for a second, and there is a rational debate to be had if multiple 1T+ market cap companies should be accommodated for in an index that's supposed to represent the 500 largest/most influential US companies. If these companies are still in the 1T+ ranges a year from now, I suspect the S&P may change some rules to get them in with the idea that the market has spoken.

JumpCrisscross 10 hours ago|||
> It's that changing the rules to suit the rich and connected is the literal definition of crony capitalism. Why should SpaceX get exemptions from entry requirements to the S&P when every other company before it didn't?

The S&P grandfathers in loads of shit. Google and Berkshire got to be the only special babies with multiple classes of stock for a few years.

The S&P tries to represent large cap American stocks. There was a genuine debate around whether SpaceX et al represent large cap stocks. Elon et al tried to put their thumbs on the scale, of course, but that wasn't the driving concern, this has been a debate that has been happening for a while.

The weird thing is linking it to Elon is absolutely titillating. So that's what influencers did. It's a maddening story. But it really isn't true, and it was even less true when the S&P rule changes were being misrepresented as faits accomplis.

khriss 10 hours ago||
> Google and Berkshire got to be the only special babies with multiple classes of stock for a few years.

Wasn't this after their entry into the index?

JumpCrisscross 10 hours ago||
> Wasn't this after their entry into the index?

Yes. Then rules were changed. Then they were unchanged.

S&P is explicitly a committee-based index. It's not hard and fast rules driven. (Russell markets itself as being super duper rules based. It's a good niche. It's also so wildly complicated as to be, in practice, at least to me, indistinguishable from the committee-based method.)

Elon undoubtedly tried to corrupt this process. But there were loads of non-corrupt reasons to look at a few trillion dollars of market cap hitting the market and ask how that should impact how various indices are calculated. The answer we've come to, that the tech and total-market indices should reflect the change while large caps should not, is a pretty good one.

dmix 4 hours ago|||
The definition of crony capitalism is when the corporations collude with the government.
ExoticPearTree 10 hours ago||
> Why should SpaceX get exemptions from entry requirements to the S&P when every other company before it didn't?

I could give you a lot of non-stocks related examples of why rules should not be set in stone.

jb_briant 12 hours ago||
I wonder if profitable means that investment must be recouped or just if your operational expenses must be compensated by your earnings.

Anthropic is becoming "profitable" while burning a series H of 69 bns usd. Does it count as profitable?

I'm curious if someone well versed in finance can answer, because from my uneducated perspective, it's not profitable to burn billions in order to make a billion.

https://www.cnbc.com/2026/05/20/anthropic-revenue-explosive-...

JumpCrisscross 12 hours ago||
> wonder if profitable means that investment must be recouped or just if your operational expenses must be compensated by your earnings

S&P requires profitability (i.e. net income) according to GAAP. That definition incorporates both ROA and operating income.

awestroke 11 hours ago||
EBITDA is typically used to evaluate profitability.
JumpCrisscross 11 hours ago||
> EBITDA is typically used to evaluate profitability

S&P requires GAAP profits, i.e. net income. EBITDA is above that.

shmoil 7 hours ago||
If you have any doubts, I highly recommend to review the stock price history of GPRO(GoPro), BYND (Beyond Meat), CGC (Canopy Growth), TLRY (Tilray).

These are just some somewhat recent IPOs that come to mind, I am sure I am forgetting some.

In the case of GPRO, look up their first quarterly reports after the IPO. Pure comedy gold.

beernet 7 hours ago|
This comparison is nuts and invalid. Each of Anthropic/OpenAI/SpaceX has more revenue than the mentioned companies combined at IPO time.

Doomers gonna doom

shmoil 7 hours ago|||
And scammers gonna scam.
Lord-Jobo 4 hours ago||||
Is revenue the only metric we care about for this? Seems like stability and p-e ratio should at least be a factor? Which you can’t get until the ipo has actually settled.
Peaches4Rent 4 hours ago||||
If only hackernews had /remindme like on reddit
thinkingtoilet 5 hours ago||||
Open AI has never made a cent of profit.
newsicanuse 6 hours ago|||
Don't be one of those cluless techbros
ferrouswheel 11 hours ago||
Finally some adults in the room.
hvb2 13 hours ago||
Related discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48405718
satvikpendem 13 hours ago|
Nice to see others are thinking the same, as I just posted the same article as a dupe of this one.
runfuyngunasdlj 3 hours ago||
The effective altruists* at Anthropic are not happy about this.

*People who justify stealing from others by lazily giving a small pittance away according to a list some other guy showed them and they thought about for 5 minutes.

RobotToaster 12 hours ago||
It's a risky investment, yes there's a chance it could go to the moon, but it could also plummet to earth.
glimshe 8 hours ago||
They don't make decisions like that out of wisdom and restraint. I imagine they got calls from Vanguard and others after index funds themselves got calls from institutional investors.
ncruces 10 hours ago|
Anyone knows what MSCI World will do?
flexagoon 9 hours ago|
Same question. It seems like they have had fast track rules for a pretty long time and will include SpaceX

https://www.msci.com/indexes/markets-in-motion/megacap-ipos

ncruces 9 hours ago||
So the funds will have to buy within 10 days of the IPO.

But I assume at least it's based on the free-float market cap?

flexagoon 5 hours ago||
Yes, it's based on free-float cap, so while it isn't ideal, it shouldn't be a huge deal for individual investors.
More comments...