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Posted by apitman 15 hours ago

I admire Fabrice Bellard. He is almost certainly a better overall programmer(twitter.com)
https://xcancel.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/2064095424420487226
782 points | 367 commentspage 3
zerr 10 hours ago|
An opinion: there were (and are) many great unknown engineers behind proprietary corporate projects. FFmpeg and QEMU became famous because these are open-source projects, not because nothing similar was done before (it was done, but in the proprietary world).
hashar 10 hours ago|
Maybe but I think you are underestimating the achievements Fabrice has accomplished. Among others: - Improved an algorithm to compute Pi, ran it on a *personal laptop* and broke the world record. That achievement is not even listed on his personal homepage, and it a single line of facts with Zero bragging involved https://www.bellard.org/pi/pi2700e9/ - a PC emulator in vanilla javascript, boot the Linux Kernel in a browser and get a virtual terminal also implemented from scratch - QuickJS, embeddable, self contained (no libs) and fast JavaScript engine matching almost entirely ES2025 - NNCP, a Neural Networks driven lossless data compression system

And more https://www.bellard.org/

I have been referring to his page for decades as an example of one can have a huge respect without having a fancy web page and no bragging at all. He is a genius :-)

zerr 10 hours ago||
Not at all. I mean, regardless of him not having a fancy web page or an Instagram, he is anyway an Internet geek celebrity we all know and respect. My point is that I believe there are many similar but noname engineers whose achievements stayed and will stay behind corporate proprietary walls.
j4k3 7 hours ago||
You remember when Micro Center had those portraits of computer greats hanging around the ceiling of their stores? I never noticed it until I looked up one day and saw Denis Ritchie, Vint Cerf, Grace Hopper, etc. The local Micro Center was re-done and I can't remember seeing the portraits, but this guy could be a candidate for a Micro Center banner.
justin66 6 hours ago|
I thought it was rather sad when they removed those. That removal was fairly recent, too. I'm sure plenty of people were saying "who is Dan Bricklin?" but it added some needed character to the store.
kzrdude 12 hours ago||
The picture appears to be real, if we trust this source:

https://www.computerhistory.org/tdih/january/6/

backscratches 10 hours ago||
Why wouldn't it be real?
kzrdude 8 hours ago|||
If the rest of the tweet is ai-generated, why not the picture?

In fact, if you ask me, I think the tweet's picture is semi-real; I trust the computer history museum to have the original and the tweet has an AI-upscaled photo with artificial details.

rozab 7 hours ago||
I think you are right, the checked pattern on the shirt is not directionally consistent
stymaar 9 hours ago|||
Better safe than sorry in today's internet.
brokensegue 6 hours ago||
anyone have a free photo for wikipedia?
BLKNSLVR 12 hours ago||
QEMU and FFMPEG!!

Where would we be today without Fabrice?

lolive 8 hours ago|
Our sexual life would be failing dates and still images.
phkahler 7 hours ago||
I think John Carmack is confusing the usefulness of ones contribution to what went in to making it. Both of these men have done amazing things technically and deciding which one is "better" is a fools errand.
copperx 14 hours ago||
"He is almost certainly a better overall programmer than I am."

Hedging the claim with a lot of qualifiers. What's wrong with admitting someone is a better programmer? even giving someone else the benefit of the doubt?

sevg 14 hours ago||
He says that Bellard is a better overall programmer, and for some reason you take this as evidence of a lack of humility?
FartyMcFarter 11 hours ago|||
Programmers are notoriously nitpicky, and avoid making absolute statements in most cases (wait, I'm doing it too!).

This is because we've been trained to be humble by the machines we work with. Computers expose a lot of our mistakes, and over time they remove any illusion that we can be quickly confident about things.

I would take the qualifiers in his post as an indication of his general disinclination towards making absolute statements, not as a lack of humility.

copperx 6 hours ago||
Sure, but what are the consequences of not being accurate in this case? praising someone undeservedly? Saying someone is better at something than you?

That's unacceptable! Bring out the surgically precise praise!

evilturnip 14 hours ago|||
I suspect being a "better programmer" cannot be said unequivocally at their level. At that percentile of achievement, it depends on the specific dimension you are talking about. It's true of the highest skill in any field.
fnordpiglet 14 hours ago||
I more suspect he is not just a better programmer but has a two orders of magnitude smaller ego.
KeplerBoy 14 hours ago|||
True, it's a weird thing to say. I am in no position to rank them, I assume they are both excellent at their niches (granted bellard seems to be interested in a lot of niches) but it never hurt anybody to be humble in this position.
cloudfudge 13 hours ago|||
I think "he's almost certainly a better programmer than me" is a double form of humility: first, he's assuming that Fabrice Bellard is a better programmer than him based on the evidence and reputation, but he's also admitting that he doesn't have direct knowledge of this. Hence "almost certainly."
vkazanov 13 hours ago||||
Well, carmack is THE game dev of 90s and 2000s fame. His 2d/3d engine work was outstanding back in the day.

Bellard did multiple breakthroughs: ffmpeg, qemu, tcc, jslinux, a state of the art FFT algorithm. I probable skipped a few.

With all due respect to carmack, a single ballard's projects would put anybody into the eternal hall of programmers fame right next to Linus, Carmack, Stallman, the Bell labs crowd and others.

i do understand how carmack did what he did logistically (time, effort, skills, compensation)...

Fabrice is just out of this world. When? How? Why? No idea.

fmajid 13 hours ago|||
He is also a mathematician, having invented a new algorithm for calculating the digits of pi
nickcw 13 hours ago||
Here is his paper on it which is a little 2 pager:

https://bellard.org/pi/pi_bin.pdf

Though I have to say the last line of the proof "...which gives (1) by reordering the terms" took me much head scratching to understand!

saidnooneever 14 hours ago|||
its because carmacl enjoys a lot of fame around his tricks. ppl get like that.
account42 12 hours ago|||
It's just a tweet, no need to over-analyze everything.
copperx 6 hours ago||
Carmack is the one over analyzing the praise he hands out.
Capricorn2481 3 hours ago||
This is truly the most non-controversy I have ever seen on here. I don't know what you drank this morning.
audunw 13 hours ago|||
Depends on what we mean by programmer.

Fabrice is more clever and faster, I guess.

But John Carmack is in my mind a better software engineer. He writes elegant code that can be used and maintained for a long time. At least from Quake 2ish, but you can see signs of solid code architecture already in Doom.

Doom code will live almost as-is forever. The code Fabrice wrote for ffmpeg has been entirely replaced

manmal 13 hours ago|||
Carmack might think that there are certain areas he will be better due to decades of experience. Overall programmer isn’t a bad qualifier at all, it’s actually making it sound less offhand and more honest.
dofm 13 hours ago||
1) Bellard is

2) avoid qualifiers in personal compliments (unless ironic)

manmal 8 hours ago|||
I don’t agree with 2). It’s ok to qualify. Sounds sycophantic to not do it.
dofm 8 hours ago||
You can find a formulation that doesn't sound sycophantic without including a qualifier that could be misinterpreted as backhanded, because on a bad day it will be.

(Especially if you are complimenting a person with ADHD.)

DonHopkins 11 hours ago|||
"You will be lucky to get this man to work for you."
keybored 13 hours ago|||
Carmack seems arrogant[1]. Which is why I take that statement as high praise.

It’s also a nod to his own fame.

[1] This is based on Masters of Doom. And the anecdotes are probably from the 90’s. And being arrogant does not mean that being confident in one’s ability is unjustified or that they are in fact not skilled. Being arrogant and being highly skilled are completely orthogonal.

jimbob45 12 hours ago||
You’re not the only one who noticed. I think the unspoken idea is that Carmack thinks he’s better without ever having met him or seen his code at all. That deserves a few qualifiers.
jf 13 hours ago||
Can anybody point me at any interviews of Fabrice? I've looked several times (including just now) and I can't find /anything/ - am I missing something obvious?
Zealotux 12 hours ago||
He gives virtually no interviews and will not talk about himself, here's an example from 2014 where only replies to technical questions: https://www.macplus.net/depeche-82364-interview-le-createur-...
kergonath 9 hours ago||
> He gives virtually no interviews and will not talk about himself

Case in point, from the linked interview:

> Could you say a couple of words about yourself?

> I would rather not talk about myself, except that I created other projects such as FFmpeg or QEMU.

rramadass 5 hours ago||
Biography - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46377862

My previous comment with links - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46372370

dang's links - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46379975

alecco 6 hours ago||
Bellard seems to be at the extreme tail of the distribution of talent x grit/perseverance.
walthamstow 9 hours ago||
Mildly funny that Carmack is quote tweeting a slop biography of Bellard from a pure AI slop account
nerdsniper 7 hours ago|
“I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops.”
nixon_why69 6 hours ago|
Horrible take given Bellard's lack of general recognition and also the situation in developed-nation-2026. There are 2 billion people not dying in cotton fields or sweatshops, you're not, where's your revolutionary free code that you gave to the world?

Over half the planet gets a chance to prove they're smart in this day and age, between gaokao in China and whatever the exams are called in India, plus the western world and the rich portions of poor countries.

nerdsniper 5 hours ago|||
> where's your revolutionary free code that you gave to the world?

I’m no Einstein. XD

I wasn’t trying to minimize Bellard’s contributions! I’m in awe of them, and very grateful. If anything I was just noticing that Fabrice is a fantastic example of how much contribution those geniuses could make if they had access to even the bare minimum of education and stability.

For example, if they weren’t growing up in the kilns of India, where they don't actually have real opportunity to participate in “whatever the exams are called in India”:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW3cy1kiB-0

https://youtu.be/oAOypGQdzGU?is=mLehIyREf0k9TUzk

nixon_why69 5 hours ago||
An Einstein or Bellard would pass the exams anyways.

A schlub like me probably wouldn't, and I recognize the advantages I've had, but your quote was about Einsteins.

d4rkp4ttern 5 hours ago||||
You're thinking of the legendary IIT (Indian Institute of Technology) JEE (Joint Entrance Exam).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Entrance_Examination

nixon_why69 5 hours ago||
Thanks!
energy123 6 hours ago|||
Ramanujan is a case in point. Some people just have it built into them, most others don't.
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