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Posted by surprisetalk 3 days ago

Dostoyevsky isn't difficult(www.autodidacts.io)
223 points | 290 commentspage 3
postalcoder 17 hours ago|
I became motivated to read Russian literature after Norm Macdonald died, knowing how much influence it had on him and chasing more of his voice. Reading Brothers Karamazov in Norm's voice made it so much more entertaining. Ironically, Norm viewed Dostoyevsky as one of the inferior Russian writers.

Here's some of Norm's thoughts about Russian literature and how to read it:

    Norm Macdonald  @normmacdonald · Feb 9, 2016
    Tolstoy is the best writer who has ever lived. Some people are intimidated
    by that fact.

    Norm Macdonald  @normmacdonald · Feb 9, 2016
    Read, in chronological order if possible, everything Tolstoy has ever
    written.
    
    Norm Macdonald  @normmacdonald · Feb 9, 2016
    People think Tolstoy would be too difficult to understand since he is the
    greatest writer to ever have drawn breath.
    
    Norm Macdonald  @normmacdonald · Feb 9, 2016
    Since I am asked about Tolstoy I will suggest all read him. Read all he has
    written. Here's the thing about Tolstoy.
    
    Norm Macdonald  @normmacdonald · Feb 9, 2016
    Tolstoy could write a massive book like War & Peace and have every word be
    necessary.
    
    Norm Macdonald  @normmacdonald · Feb 9, 2016
    Dosto is a fine writer. Better are Tolstoy, Chekhov, Gogol, Turgenev and
    Pushkin.
    
    Norm Macdonald  @normmacdonald · Feb 9, 2016
    To be a great writer you must be able to communicate with the reader.
    Tolstoy communicates better than anyone else ever.
    
    Norm Macdonald  @normmacdonald · Feb 9, 2016
    Dostoevsky was far the inferior to Tolstoy, he was inferior to most of the
    great Russians.
    
    Norm Macdonald  @normmacdonald · Feb 9, 2016
    Agree completely. Should read both actually. and P&V have not translated
    most Tolstoy, so then go to Constance.
    
    Norm Macdonald  @normmacdonald · Feb 7, 2018
    Well, Jocelyn, I don't know of what other authors you refer to, but Tolstoy
    isn't a nihilist. X.com/FLEURdian_slip...
    
    T.L. States  @epmornsesh · Dec 21, 2018
    @normmacdonald Any authors you would recommend that are writing killer
    comedic fiction?
    
    Norm Macdonald  @normmacdonald · Dec 21, 2018
    Tolstoy, Chekhov, Philip Roth, Salinger, me.
    
    Norm Macdonald  @normmacdonald · Jan 21, 2019
    @GaryGulman Read great works of Literature out loud. If you do not
    understand what you are reading, stop, figure out what it means, then
    repeat the exercise. Do this an hour a day and in time, your own voice,
    your own thoughts will become the same as Tolstoy, Faulkner, Twain.
scrame 5 hours ago|
Oh, yes, he was doing a "book club" on twitter for a little while. I remember him doing an interesting thread on an Updike book where he was making a point that the author was a great writer because he could make a character that was simply a good writer, with the larger point that people can't write convincing characters that are smarter than they are.
waynecochran 19 hours ago||
I have never read a book I hated more than The Brothers Karamazov. I never read a book that depressed me more than Crime and Punishment. No more Dostoevsky for me.
B1FF_PSUVM 9 hours ago||
You're doing it wrong. I bumped into this 'Short Guide to Russian literature':

"Russian literature consists of suffering. Either writer suffers, or protagonist, or reader. If all three suffer simultaneously--then it is a masterpiece. In every difficult situation always read Russian classic literature--it is even worse in there."

waynecochran 5 hours ago||
Maybe I like my characters to be in worse situations but inspire me by overcoming them and giving hope. Dostoyevsky leaves you in a pool of gray melancholy and dispair.
dang 18 hours ago||
You and Nabokov.

Edit: except for The Double.

CalChris 18 hours ago||
I liked The Possessed by Elif Batuman. I had read The Idiot in high school, a death march for a term paper. But I liked Batuman's reading of it better than mine (but not enough to re-read it).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elif_Batuman

blast 18 hours ago|
> The Possessed (2010), The Idiot (2017), and Either/Or (2022)

That's like publishing Hamlet (2010), King Lear (2017), and Thus Spake Zarathustra (2022). I wonder what her thought process is in choosing these titles? And what will her next work be?

gtg239a 16 hours ago||
She has an academic background in Russian Literature and writes really engaging essays about her encounters with the literature (The Possessed). I can’t recommend her novels and essays enough. They’re riotously funny and erudite and readable if you’re looking for something.
everybodyknows 6 hours ago|||
Her coming-of-age short story or perhaps memoir of a few years ago in The New Yorker has stayed with me. Only after finishing and contemplating it does the tragedy of the young woman's experience really make itself felt.
3 hours ago|||
gaiagraphia 18 hours ago||
Lol, remember being in my early 20s on a train and trying to read Crime and Punishhment, and just kept skipping random 5 pages here and there, before going back to playing Durak with some random Tajiks (who got kicked off the train in some random place...). The huge pages of French didn't help.

Prefered Demons, personally. Probably becuase I read it when more mature.

eapriv 5 hours ago||
Are there any pages of French in “Crime and Punishment”?
frogulis 17 hours ago||
Wonderful to see Durak mentioned. I learned it in its Vietnamese form (Tấn) and introduced it to friends in Australia where it was a big hit. We eventually settled on calling it "Dickhead" or "Dumbarse" which seems like an appropriately Australian interpretation of the source material :thinking:
vkazanov 10 hours ago||
Oh, this weird little game!

In my little hometown back in Lithuania we played the game as teens so much that everybody knew the optimal strategy, and it was more about either sheer luck, or who misremembers other people hands.

A bit like checkers after a certain level.

rceDia 8 hours ago||
Delved into Russian literature during the "pandemic years". Reading "Crime and Punishment" was definitely the latter but used a study guide to assist (read guide after reading the book chapter). Then the "Brothers..." followed by other authors Turgenev "Fathers and Sons" and Tolstoy's "The Resurrection". Many lessons to learn by these brilliant writers.
shrubble 16 hours ago||
For a change of pace in Russian authors, I would recommend the newer "Jamila" by Chingiz Aitmatov, 1958.
noja 7 hours ago||
Will Poulter (yes, him) has a very good Crime & Punishment audiobook.
throw4847285 7 hours ago|
Doesn't surprise me at all. He's really a character actor who happens to look like he does. Similar to Dan Stevens, who coincidentally, has some great Agatha Christie audiobooks. He does all the voices.
scrame 5 hours ago||
That's funny, I recognized the name, but had to look him up and went "oh yeah, eyebrows guy!".

The kid who played Joffrey on game of thrones also always came across as a very smart, thoughtful kid, he just played an intensely hateable character. Similar to the actor who played Marlo in The Wire, I saw him host an actors roundtable and had to blink twice "wow, one of the scariest villains in a gritty show is actually this cheerful, charismatic guy.

I don't think all actors are smart, and I certainly think some actors think they are smarter than they are, but I don't think being smart hurts if you're an actor.

weinzierl 13 hours ago||
Dostoevsky published many of his novels in installments in journals. Being easy to read and hooking the reader in was a basic requirement for his writing to be successful.
havblue 5 hours ago||
As I get older I appreciate more how much nineteenth and twentieth century literature has in common with the modern era. Notes From the Underground was a great example of this where the narrator feels that he's destined for great things but self-sabotages along the way, becoming more and more isolated. He isn't that much different from the many educated, underemployed and frustrated, or even insufferable, people on the Internet. We haven't changed that much at all.
slackfan 17 hours ago|
The Pevear and Volohonsky "translations" are an affront to english prose, russian literature, and the craft of translation in general. A heavily quantized LLM with an aneurism would provide the reader with a better translation than that trash.

(I used to be a professional translator for the relevant languages, so I have opinions™)

jallmann 17 hours ago||
Which translations would you recommend for Crime and Punishment or Dostoyevsky in general?

When I'm starting to read a non-English novel, the process of deciding which translation to use is half the fun. The Kent and Berbera (revised Garnett) version of Anna Karenina was mesmerizing.

slackfan 10 hours ago||
Garnett (and editions of) are (quelle suprise) just fine.
EddieB 4 hours ago||
Agreed on Garnett- but you might also like McDuffs
LearnYouALisp 3 hours ago||
As a matter of tangent-(ial relation), have you ever come across or read any of Silverman's translations of mathematics or science from Russian? Supposedly they were slanted by opinion, a mis-informed Westerner's perspectives, and had a number of liberties such as re-arrangement (in a mathematics text!). I wanted to read the (more recent) original and asked a classmate to buy it on an exchange but have not met up afterward.
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