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Posted by madars 7 hours ago

Digital euro clears key hurdle as EU seeks to break free from U.S. credit cards(finance.yahoo.com)
153 points | 234 commentspage 2
amadeuspagel 7 hours ago|
> The approval of draft rules by the economic committee of the European Parliament comes after three years of wrangling between the ECB and banks, which have been concerned about deposit outflows and lost revenues and sought to limit the scope of the project.

This kind of thing is why I'm optimistic both about Bitcoin and fiat currencies in third world countries like Brazil and India.

Muromec 5 hours ago|
Still faster than increasing the block size limit in bitcoin
insane_dreamer 2 hours ago||
I don't understand why you need a "digital Euro" since debit card transactions are already "digital", and widespread in Europe (Girocard, Carte Bleu, etc.)?

This sounds more like a cross-EU unified payment system/mechanism rather than a "digital currency" (which already exists).

unsigner 5 hours ago||
This sounds like "government issue Revolut". Which would be... low-key nice? Not a nefarious scheme, not a revolutionary future of money, just something to replace a certain part of your financial life without tying it to a commercial entity. Which might be appealing to the anti-capitalism segment of Europeans.
Pooge 5 hours ago||
Isn't the Euro digital already? I don't understand...

Is the buzzword just flying over my head?

kittikitti 7 hours ago||
I am hoping this could be utilized by those living in the US who also don't want to use the dollar. The surveillance has grown too large and I don't trust my own money. The IRS requires all transactions sent to them if they total $600 or more on a payment app. Why would I want my money in US dollar when the Euro has vastly more robust protections and less corruption?
toomuchtodo 6 hours ago||
Related:

European Parliament committee backs digital euro - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48645468 - June 2026

paulwilsontx01 5 hours ago||
might be time the europeans get a little democracy
stackghost 7 hours ago||
This is interesting and poignant less because of the digital currency aspect and more because of the geopolitics. In a world where technology touches everything, tech itself becomes political.

The boulder that is de-Americanization has rolled too far downhill now and gained too much momentum; it can no longer be stopped.

The two thirds of Americans who either voted for Trump or couldn't be bothered to vote against him because they aReN't PoLiTiCaL are going to have to come to terms with their new place in the world one way or another. The US is no longer seen as a stable military partner[0], nor a stable economic partner as evidenced by TFA. It's easy to blame Trump but he is merely a symptom of the root cause, which is the attitudes shared by a huge number of Americans.

America will cease to be (and in some cases already has ceased to be) the world's epicenter of geopolitical soft power, scientific innovation, and financial clout. Treaties to which the US is a signatory are not worth the paper they're printed on. The foundations have already been laid, and the de-Americanization trend can't be stopped. For a people so accustomed to feeling like a privileged special class of world citizens, I honestly wonder if the American psyche can handle it. Probably we'll see a wave of people who "never supported Trump in the first place", just like tons of Germans were "never Nazis in the first place" once it became socially unpalatable.

So, congrats, I guess. At least you guys got some people with brown skin deported.

[0] https://www.readtheline.ca/p/matt-gurney-we-will-never-fucki...

omnimus 5 hours ago|
Don't underestimate how much in bed are many of the european politicians/oligarchs with US neocon class. Trump is also problem for them. If Trump gets replaced by some moderate neocon on wave of “good old times” every one of these lobbied politicians will jump back hail comming of the golden age, buy everything american again and delete all this sovereignity out of the sky.

Trump moved overton window so much we will be fed story about how we shall be glad for the corrupted but not vulgar politicians that do barely minimum.

stackghost 3 hours ago||
>If Trump gets replaced by some moderate neocon on wave of “good old times” every one of these lobbied politicians will jump back hail comming of the golden age, buy everything american again and delete all this sovereignity out of the sky.

I don't think so. In fact I think you, like the American delegation in the article I linked to, are dramatically underestimating the degree to which a lot of US allies feel betrayed.

euio757 7 hours ago||
> giving Union citizens the freedom to opt to pay with central bank money

Because nothing speaks freedom more than a crazily centralized digital currency

/s

gschizas 6 hours ago||
It's centralized right now, digital or not, around the two major US payment processors (Visa and MasterCard).
throwaway270925 4 hours ago||
> crazily centralized digital currency

Boy, will you be pissed when you learn about non-digital currency!

FooBarWidget 7 hours ago|
??? Doesn't Europe already have Wero (iDEAL in Netherlands)? That's a system for making online payments. Money gets directly debited from your bank account.

I've always found credit cards stupid. You just want to pay for something, and then suddenly you have a debt. You shouldn't be in debt when you can clearly pay with money you have. Credit card companies advertise with "super easy payments" and "buy now pay later" but at the same time the government warns all the time that "lending money costs money". Also, if your credit card number and CVC get leaked, then anybody can steal any amount of money, and your only recourse is to regularly check your statements and warn the bank within a month. Whereas with Wero/iDEAL you must authorize the exact transaction at that exact amount.

Supposedly, Americans have these "credit card rewards" loyalty program things. Doesn't exist in Europe. You can only pay, you don't get any bonuses. Which makes the only reason to have a credit card is to be able to pay in web shops that don't accept Wero/iDEAL.

t-sauer 7 hours ago||
I assume you never really interacted with the credit card world? E.g. most banks in Germany will give you a credit card that automatically deducts the outstanding debt at the end of the month, you can't really collect debt over time.

In addition I can deposit money on my credit card, so effectively I never have to be in debt if I don't want to. I just have to charge it up which is done in like 3 seconds in the banking app. It can even be automated.

Lastly credit cards with bonus programs definitely exist in Europe. Cashback variations are the most common ones, but all kinds of programs exist. E.g. Eurowings has one https://www.eurowings.com/de/ihre-vorteile/kreditkarten/uebe...

woodruffw 7 hours ago|||
Credit cards serve the same purpose as loans: they allow you to make a purchase in advance of expected income. There’s a reasonable civic argument that this kind of loan should be tightly regulated to stop people from ruining themselves, but the basic economics work fine for millions of Americans who pay their credit cards on time (or otherwise consider a balance acceptable given their purchasing plans).

(I don’t think the fraud distinction you’re making is as stark in practice: in the US, you’re less exposed to fraud with credit since it’s the creditor’s money, not yours. Reversing a debit transaction in the US is somewhat more involved, albeit for not-good reasons concerning the US’s aging financial infrastructure.)

Sayrus 7 hours ago|||
At least in France, most of what people call "credit cards" are actually debit cards.
anonzzzies 7 hours ago||
Yeah most EU citizens never had a credit card but they call them credit cards anyway.
dgellow 7 hours ago|||
The way I understand it the Digital Euro doesn't compete with Wero. It's a way for the European Central Bank to emit money in digital form. In theory that doesn't require bank accounts, and can support offline transactions. It's a pretty different concept, more like a new form of money.

Wero, SEPA, and the digital euro are complementing each others

xxpor 7 hours ago|||
Europeans being so scared of debt is so funny. Just pay off your card every month.

The liability model is completely different in the US from Europe w.r.t. merchant vs bank.

The interchange fees are much much higher in the US, which is what pays for the rewards. Europe has an artificial cap.

Dries007 7 hours ago|||
Almost all EU credit cards are automatic debit at the end of the month, i.e. carrying over balance is not even possible. You will simply be over-drafted on the linked debit account and charged a fee + steep interest if you spend more then you have. Typically until the overdraft is resolved, no further debit card payments can be made.

The only reasons to use a CC in EU are:

- online payments where CC is the only accepted form of payment

- delay payments until after receiving wage

- hotels, car rentals, and other places that lock an amount on your card

- extra insurance provided by some more premium cards (VISA Gold etc)

Ever since 3-D Secure (2FA for CC transactions, beyond the CCV code), you have been liable for any transaction that was validated by it. Your bank may still do a chargeback as a courtesy, but that's not guaranteed.

looperhacks 7 hours ago||||
I don't think it's primarily about being scared of debt, it's just a weird, unnecessary step in-between. I have a credit-card and even I don't understand why I should prefer it over my debit card
euio757 7 hours ago||
Setting weird rewards/cash back things aside, which is the main incentive for folks to use it over debit card in most places:

It's not fully unnecessary step in-between when fraud is involved.

If someone hacks you/deceives you and somehow they got $5000 from your debit card, then your bank account is $5000 smaller. That can impact your ability to pay rent, or whatever you needed those $5000 for.

If it's via credit card, you have a decent amount of time to contest and resolve the issue.

the disputed amount should effectively be removed from your balance or offset by a temporary provisional credit until the investigation is completed

xdennis 6 hours ago||
> If someone hacks you/deceives you and somehow they got $5000 from your debit card, then your bank account is $5000 smaller.

That's a myth. I had my debit card cloned and some money stolen. The bank gave my money back. Debit cards are protected too.

euio757 4 hours ago||
That's not a myth and your story doesn't invalidate what I said. Never said Debit card aren't protected

Between the time [some money stolen] and [bank gave my money back] your checking account balance was lowered by the amount stolen.

With a credit card, your checking account isn't directly affected.

Both are protected, the difference is your effective checking account balance in the time window between the time the money is stolen and the money is recovered.

soperj 7 hours ago||||
> The interchange fees are much much higher in the US, which is what pays for the rewards.

You're just raising the price for everyone for the sake of Visa & Mastercard's profit. Europe's cap makes a ton of sense.

ricardobayes 7 hours ago||||
Data shows they aren't that scared of debt, in fact some European countries have higher household debt than US, notably: Switzerland, Sweden and UK. It's pretty telling that Klarna is a Swedish company.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_household...

jbverschoor 7 hours ago||||
10ct vs % of the value. The consumer is paying for that.

But I guess it’s the same logic as the tipping point/ salary culture in the US.

Or the fact that sales tax is not always included in the price.

blenklo 7 hours ago||||
Your liability comment would mean though that the EU should use it and USA shouldn't.

EU has low fees for transfer, USA has high fees for transfer but apparently its easier for an US Citizen to dispute something.

At least as far as i'm aware, if i send money to someone else, its gone.

Whats that artifical cap?

xdennis 6 hours ago|||
> Europeans being so scared of debt is so funny.

I've never understood this mentality. It's like walking through a dangerous neighborhood knowing that you have excellent health insurance. If you get stabbed, you'll probably recover very well, but why take the risk?

I can understand going into debt to buy a house, but I can't understand going into debt to buy a can of tuna. Why take an unnecessary risk?

clmul 7 hours ago||
Paying with credit card gives you at least some leverage when a merchant doesn't hold their end of the deal. Good luck getting your money back with iDEAL (it's not possible right now).
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