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Posted by Buildstarted 3 hours ago

California AB 2047 makes 3D printers off-limits to students, educators, business(www.the3dprintingnerd.com)
238 points | 161 comments
umvi 3 hours ago|
> The required technology is not possible - 3D printers read code, not intent; they cannot tell what a shape is for.

"Anthropic announces Project Disarm, a new model designed for 3d printer manufacturers to quickly infer whether the intent of an stl file is a weapon. The printer first submits the job to the cloud, and only after it's approved will it print."

Not that I want this future, just that I can imagine it.

jchw 3 hours ago||
Based on the fact that Claude Opus 4.8 decided I needed a cybersecurity exemption to debug a stupid pure virtual call bug (basically virtual method called inside of destructor) that I had already found, oh boy, I sure would love to have my 3D prints analyzed by Anthropic safe guards. We should also ensure that nothing shaped like a dildo can be printed without scanning our face and genitalia and keeping it on file with Persona while we're at it.

I'm not mad at you for suggesting this, you're right, I'm just generally aimlessly angry and ready for this world to burn.

caturopath 2 hours ago|||
I'm getting a lot of refusals these days from multiple LLMs on multiple fronts for silly stuff, a lot more than I had for a while. If this is where things are really going, I think open weight models have a big future.
jojobas 2 hours ago|||
"H.R. 148867 makes all large language models subject to safety certification, introduces penalties for unlicensed training and use of uncertified models"
bluescrn 2 hours ago|||
And China wins the AI race
jojobas 2 hours ago||
Who cares of the races when CHILDREN are at stake!
verdverm 1 hour ago||
The politicians still care about their races?
parineum 1 hour ago|||
So many ridiculous bills get introduced in the house you can find one that says anything.
jojobas 1 hour ago||
You didn't think this one was real, or did you?
parineum 1 hour ago||
I don't doubt that it is but I didn't check. The point is that you can probably find a HR to propose allowing aliens to land in the grand canyon.

The existence of a house resolution mean that one representative wrote a thing, not that it's on the precipice of becoming law.

cladopa 1 hour ago|||
Frankly who cares about dildos when your personal freedom and private property of you and your family is at stake.You can buy uncountable dildo models in a shop.

I recently was in Venezuela, I have been in Cuba. I am a native spaniard. There you have a group of people that took control of the weapons in the country and uses it to basically enslave the rest of the country.

When the people in power have automatic weapons and you don't there is basically nothing you can do to defend yourself from the abuses of power.

That is a real thing the people in power have wet dreams and would love to do in any country, including the US.

DivingForGold 34 minutes ago||
Ummm, well, seems in historical perspective that quite a few instances of rebels using improvised molotov cocktails against tyrannical governments. When it's a country that the US disapproves of, seems they support this activity as "freedom fighters". But when this behavior occurs in protests inside the homeland, obviously the authorities come down hard.
ryandrake 2 hours ago|||
The future is almost certainly the terrible path: "applications phoning home to judge whether a use case is approved by the company." All writing is on the wall, and directionally that's the way software and hardware has been moving. We have unfortunately normalized the idea that users must have this ongoing tethered relationship to the product manufacturers and software developers, who measure, change, and control the user's usage at their whim.

You can no longer just buy a tool and use it.

Terr_ 2 hours ago||
> whether a use case is approved by the company

Echoes of Network Neutrality problems, where BigCo is permitted to block or degrade sites about how to cancel your BigCo service.

mrandish 2 hours ago|||
Yes, I can imagine it too. And, if such a 'safety nanny' is enacted into law, I'm confident it will A. Refuse to print a significant number of innocent projects, or B. Be trivially circumvented by bad actors. The odds are high that it will manage to do both.
K0balt 47 minutes ago||
Totally circumvented by everyone, basically. You can hook up an arduino to most consumer 3d printers and throw away the motherboard that comes with them. Aside from being stupid and dangerous, this is going to create some excellent makerscale marketing opportunities.
warumdarum 2 hours ago|||
Finally a llm trained on manufacturing weapons. "AI remove all the safe metal from a lower reciever so that the dangerous part can be safely destroyed without endangering the environment "
kazinator 1 hour ago|||
A dedicated model for this purpose could easily run locally. Recognizing shapes is not exactly cutting age AI.

The input to the detector could be not the G code instructions, but a 3D model representation recovered by simulating the G code. (That's a thing that exists.)

The requirements for a 3D printer which detects weapon shapes is actually fairly realistic.

It would likely have laughable false positives: 8-year-old Johnny not being able to 3D print a squirt pistol.

Some common tools have pistol-like form factors: spray guns, glue/grease/caulking guns, drills, hair dryers.

It is a cockamamie idea; but to claim that it is not doable seems a bit disingenuous.

wowczarek 2 hours ago|||
They will also refuse to print 3D printer parts, especially spares for the printer to print them.
ex-aws-dude 2 hours ago|||
Knowing how governments do this stuff its going to be something lazy/easy to bypass like a list of stl files/hashes that are banned
fc417fc802 1 hour ago||
To mitigate that, and as a token acknowledgement to privacy concerns, OpenMappleSoft will introduce a device side fuzzy hashing scheme whose output it turns out you can reverse to recover the original weapon schematics.
skydhash 2 hours ago|||
When I was a kid I saw someone with a makeshift shotgun made out of a steel pipe, a strong spring, and and a rough striker. Not very effective, but it was working.
mc32 3 hours ago||
You missed the step where a DMV-clone of a state bureaucracy reviews the LLMs output before nixing the request a few weeks after the LLMs result.
dgellow 3 hours ago||
If that becomes current law I don’t want to ever hear about Europe being over-regulated compared to the US…
vor_ 2 hours ago||
There are several snarky knee-jerk reactions in the comments here, but state assemblies pass things all the time that ultimately fail to pass or get vetoed. Now the public will debate it, contact their state senators to give their opinions...it's all part of the process.
zerobees 2 hours ago|||
California constantly passes all kinds of weird, pointless, and burdensome gun laws. There are so many of them, and they're so poorly written, that no lawyer in the state who can confidently tell you what's legal and what isn't until a court chimes in. There's no meaningful process around any of that.

The only thing that's different about this one is that it mentions a technology geeks care about. But I doubt that's enough. As another commenter noted, you can no longer hide behind "we have no technology to distinguish between guns and non-guns". We have AI that's supposedly PhD-level and will soon automate all jobs. Looking at STL files sounds like a job.

That's actually one of my fears about LLMs: they make thought policing cheap. There are profound privacy and cost barriers to having a Facebook employee review all your private messages. There are no such barriers to having a robot watch all your IMs in real time.

fc417fc802 1 hour ago||
> There are no such barriers to having a robot watch all your IMs in real time.

Or your literal thoughts depending on how far we're able to push neuralink type technology.

harshreality 2 hours ago|||
A law like this just passed in New York State.

If this fails it'll be because the tech industry expresses disapproval too loudly to ignore.

The legislators don't care about the underlying criticism. Almost no legislators have ever used a 3d printer or written any software, beyond maybe simple assigned programs if they had a required intro-to-programming course. Few are "tech" people. The rest don't understand this technology, or any technology really, beyond it being a black box for specific purposes. They see 3d printing and plastic guns and think something must be done, because the 3d printing black boxes are producing dangerous weapons.

jasonfarnon 2 hours ago||
Are these laws already on the books places like Europe, Japan with strict gun control laws?
elzbardico 59 minutes ago||
Good laws for gun control probably are enough to cover also 3D printed guns.
WheatMillington 1 hour ago|||
Americans are not allowed to buy Kinder eggs.
paleotrope 2 hours ago|||
You have to compare Europe to California.
kazinator 1 hour ago||
Calieurnia. :)
micromacrofoot 3 hours ago|||
Regulatory speaking, California is America's Europe
jltsiren 3 hours ago|||
Europe favors comprehensive regulation, with laws or directives dealing with families of related issues. California does regulation in a very American way, with individual bills targeting specific issues. It just does more of that than the average state.
kogasa240p 3 hours ago||||
Without the robust train system, but that is changing slowly.
mvdtnz 2 hours ago|||
California is in America, not Europe, whether you wish to accept that or not.
whalesalad 2 hours ago|||
california is the europe of the united states, for better or for worse.
waffletower 2 hours ago|||
Describing California as "the Europe of the United States" ignores its essential narcissism -- defining California in terms of Europe would be met with contemptuous pashaws, even if the balkanized ethnic enclaves found there, at a scale larger than anywhere in the U.S. -- not even New York, resemble Europe. The Asian communities will also wonder if you can find Vietnam on a map -- would guess you think it is in the Mediterranean.
xienze 3 hours ago||
Well that's one state, and the one that fancies itself as the most European in spirit, at that.
gpm 2 hours ago||
It's 1/10th the US population though, and probably 1/2 the population of US 3d printing nerds.
bluescrn 2 hours ago|||
They can cross state lines, take a trip to Vegas, visit the casinos and makerspaces...
dimitrios1 2 hours ago|||
and I would imagine close to 100% of the US 3d printing nerds that live there have the means to easily move to another state and continue their 3d printing nerdom.

There is a reason why California is leading the nation in migration out of the state.

gpm 2 hours ago|||
Because real estate is super expensive because everyone keeps moving there?
deckar01 2 hours ago||
I tried to photo copy a dollar bill when I was a kid on a dinky inkjet printer. It printed half way then spit out something about counterfeit prevention. I scanned the bill, printed the top half, fed the paper back in, and printed the bottom half. This can only actually stop the completely unmotivated.
overfeed 2 hours ago||
You managed to defeat the first layer of defense - the warning. The yellow identifying dots were present on your printed copy, should you have decided become a precocious criminal successful enough to warrant the attention of the Secret Service.
Terr_ 2 hours ago||
That leads into a great example of how most OS "telemetry" is anything but safe or innocent:

1. Your printer probably puts a secret code into everything you print (not just money-like things) with the time and a serial number of the printer. [0]

2. Windows and MacOS constantly sends the serial-numbers of your connected devices back to the mothership. [1][2]

3. So when you print out a flyer that somehow annoys the regime, they read out the serial number, then call a buddy at Microsoft/Apple.

4. Now there are thugs knocking at your door to talk about how your picture was criminally mean to Dear Leader.

[0] https://www.eff.org/pages/list-printers-which-do-or-do-not-d...

[1] https://arxiv.org/abs/2002.12506

[2] https://littlesnitchfirewall.com/macos-telemetry

an0malous 2 hours ago||
Do printers still do that? I wonder if the tracking dots are still there as well, haven’t used a printer in a while
denverllc 2 hours ago||
Louis Rossman believes these bills are partly funded/lobbied for by Bloomberg.

https://youtu.be/E1B2cWEaWDw?is=xwpLZoyVSi6psztQ

augstein 2 hours ago||
What is the assumed intention?
SauciestGNU 1 hour ago||
My assumption about his involvement with Everytown is that he sees his position in society through a Marxist lens for threat modeling, and armed proles are one of the bigger threats the plutocrats face.
codazoda 1 hour ago||
Why does Bloomberg get into so much activism?
giantg2 2 hours ago||
NY is pushing the same sort of stuff. The question to ask is how many people are actually being killed with 3D printed weapons? I don't have that info, but I would guess they are statistical outliers and would have been replaced by other homemade weapons if not available. Politicians love to "fix" problems that aren't really problems in the first place.
LorenPechtel 40 minutes ago|
The problem is there is a lot of garbage about it. Ghost guns are a real issue, but ghost guns are not 3D printed guns.

3D printed is a very niche case. They're only good for one shot ever, they are not reliable even for that. And they're bulky. The one thing they do is make it much harder for a metal detector to find them.

Ghost guns made by CNC milling equipment are nearly identical to what you would buy from the manufacturer, except they do not have a serial number and you won't have the background check for a firearms purchase.

But politicians are reacting to the ghost guns by going after the printed guns.

wl 15 minutes ago||
There are plenty of 3D printed guns that are good for more than one shot. The classic examples are 3D printed Glock-style frames and AR-15 lower receivers. As far as US gun laws are concerned, those parts are the firearm and the rest of the parts are uncontrolled. So you print those, buy barrels, triggers, magazines, etc to finish the build and voila, ghost gun.
mbgerring 33 minutes ago||
In general I agree with the 3D printing and open source community that bills like these are bad ideas. However, I want to ask this question in the spirit of helping craft better arguments:

Given that it is extremely well known that most commercial printers will refuse to print anything that looks like counterfeit currency, why is this considered technically unworkable?

I agree that compliance would be onerous, but that's different from insisting that it's not possible.

jshmrsn 3 hours ago||
Roll call from the Assembly vote: https://legiscan.com/CA/rollcall/AB2047/id/1702219
fearmerchant 2 hours ago|
All those terrible republicans against this common sense bill.
androiddrew 3 hours ago||
Yeah you. Better get your printer air gapped because they are going to brick it in the name of getting re-elected
tedd4u 1 hour ago||
If you're in San Francisco, note that Catherine Stefani and Matt Haney both voted for this ridiculous bill.

Roll call: https://legiscan.com/CA/rollcall/AB2047/id/1702219

monax 3 hours ago|
Next they will ban hardware store ? Because you could make a weapon with that pipe
Avicebron 3 hours ago||
Sir are you a licensed chef of good standing in OnlyChef's database? That knife is dangerous. We can issue you a government approved plastic version if you need to cut something, but SoylentGreen(tm) is Ready-to-Scoop(tm)!
aidenn0 3 hours ago|||
Fun fact:

There is a law in California that has been interpreted to mean that all clubbing weapons are illegal. So if you by a length of pipe and keep it around (e.g. under your bed) explicitly for self-defense purposes, you have committed a crime.

IANAL, but as far as I can tell, keeping a shotgun in your home for self-defense purposes would be fine, as long as you aren't planning ahead of time to use it as a club.

[edit]

My information is slightly out-of-date; there was an injunction against enforcement in 2024 from Fouts v Bonta. I have no clue the injunction is or is not still in effect, so ask your lawyer before carrying a club.

kube-system 2 hours ago||
This isn't just California. A lot of states have laws regulating the carrying of weapons, and include bats and clubs in those statutes, the definition of which often hinges on the intent of their use.

This is why many may have heard lawyers say "if you're going to carry a baseball bat in your car, make sure to also carry a ball and mitt"

https://legalclarity.org/is-it-legal-to-have-a-baseball-bat-...

I think so many people in the US are so focused on the topic of guns as weapons that we sometimes forget that we have laws regarding other weapons as well.

bluescrn 2 hours ago|||
They'll also have to ban motors and microcontrollers. As they can be used to build 3D printers and drones.

Maybe they'll ban Github, too - as it hosts unregulated open source software that can power these scary tools.

smt88 3 hours ago||
For a long time, you couldn’t buy “strike anywhere” matches because they could be used in producing meth.
philipkglass 2 hours ago|||
It's the striker strip that can be used in producing meth. The strip contains red phosphorus. Strike anywhere matches are the only kind that don't need a special strip. The strike anywhere kind were probably restricted due to their sensitivity to shock and friction which makes them more useful and more dangerous than safety matches.
black6 2 hours ago||
Loading a tennis ball full of the heads of strike anywhere matches is a core childhood memory.
bri3d 2 hours ago|||
I am not aware of this being a regulatory matter in any state, California included. Retailers choose not to carry them because they are expensive to ship due to their hazardous materials classification and an attractive theft / crime target due to their (inaccurate) drug association, but it hasn’t led to any blanket regulation at any state level that I know of. I do think they’re banned from workplaces in California though, but that’s because they’re dangerous, not because of meth.
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