Top
Best
New

Posted by mooreds 4 hours ago

Mag 7 starting to underperform [pdf](www.apollo.com)
159 points | 131 commentspage 2
TravisJamison 3 hours ago|
Markets are obviously, rationally, not happy about the overspending.

But what gives me pause is that a some of the mag 7 (think Meta) could change their mind on AI build-out tomorrow, and 1-year from now have the same amazing free cash flow they always did.

2748484848 2 hours ago||
I don't think most people quite grasp the sheer size of the debt obligations Meta and specially Oracle have gotten into. Meta has done some clever tricks to keep it off the main books, but it IS there. If no AGI, its gonna drag them down for a decade.
infecto 3 hours ago||
I tend to agree. I suspect if we look back a few years from now that there was some overspending but I still believe the risk of not investing and missing out is greater than the current historical trend of capex spend. I have not looked recently but has demand of compute started to slow down. It was just a few months ago when companies like Anthropic were throttling users because there was not enough of it.
ianm218 4 hours ago||
What has been the best way to determine return on the AI specific capex for hyperscalers?

I would naively expect Microsoft’s to be the highest since they are probably mainly just selling access to their capex through cloud since they aren’t seriously pursuing frontier AI, I’d imagine Google to be in the middle (selling TPUs, general cloud GPUs, Gemini, revenue lift on ads from better AI) but also spending heavily on infra to compete with OAI/ Anthropic, and then Meta to be on the low end since they are likely getting serious revenue lift from AI but not monetizing their models by API.

TheAtomic 3 hours ago||
That free cash flow drop at AMZN is surprising.
teepo 51 minutes ago|
yeah i was interested as well. -$2.5B from $11B last year. However the analysts see it recovering quickly. If you put all the Trainium(N) chip investments aside as being all AI risk, they still have some good pipeline with the satellite internet stuff (Delta, JetBlue, Vodaphone).
geori 4 hours ago||
OMG - ridiculous to evaluate it based on the last 3 mo.
bArray 3 hours ago||
I think page 4 is a little disingenuous, I'm pretty sure you could pick lots of windows and show the mag 7 deviating negatively, but then later trends positive. I believe this whole thing will pop, but I'm not quite convinced it is just yet.

Page 8 for Oracle's free cash flow trending negative is really quite impactful. The Bloomberg AI bubble diagram [1] shows how this could really blow up. If Oracle falls they could take the whole market with them. We're just waiting on the mag 7 or any closely linked companies to fail to raise investment.

Page 16 really outlines how insane these evaluations are. I think most countries see it, hence aggressive selloffs of US bonds [2]. But everybody is just too insanely heavily exposed to it all now, it's going to wipe out everything. It's going to be a very awful time when heavily debt strapped countries can't issue debt anymore.

I think what we're going to see is some insane moves to keep these companies afloat longer in some desperate attempt to delay the pop, which will just make a bigger bubble. I could see Nvidia for example issuing bonds in excess of $100bn soon if the market has appetite for it [3].

[1] https://archive.is/0bYLS

[2] https://sg.finance.yahoo.com/news/china-japan-uae-india-sell...

[3] https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/nvidia-raises-over-21-5bn-...

ohyes 3 hours ago||
as soon as you start calling a group of stock tickers the “magnificent 7” they’re destined to underperform, as that’s a feelings based assessment and many investors will continue to buy the feelings long past the value being fair.

“Do they make money? I don’t know but I know they’re magnificent!”

gniv 3 hours ago||
Some of this might be mechanical since so much money went into the chip companies.
ai-x 2 hours ago||
Completely missing the point of not adding Anthropic, OpenAI, SpaceX.

Mag7 is just an arbitrary list of companies that were coined at a specific time with no rigor.

If you must do rigorous analysis, then just like S&P 500 you need to add drop BigTech / High Growth companies continuously to this Mag7 (or Mag10) and then do analysis

amelius 4 hours ago||
See also:

https://finance.yahoo.com/markets/article/magnificent-7-stoc...

> The once high-flying "Magnificent Seven" are looking more like the Dreadful Seven.

> The why: Wall Street is growing increasingly impatient with Big Tech's astronomical capital expenditures on artificial intelligence, projected to balloon 70% to exceed $700 billion this year.

nh23423fefe 2 hours ago|
I only care what the market is at >25 years from now
Barbing 2 hours ago|
Yeahhh but...

OK, I guess it _would_ be pretty hard to have an _unrecoverable_ crash...

More comments...