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Posted by gslin 13 hours ago

The bottleneck might be the air in the room(blog.mikebowler.ca)
686 points | 387 commentspage 2
kashishgrover 12 hours ago|
Oh this is absolutely so relevant and I wonder if there are any high quality studies that have analyzed driving performance against CO2 buildup in cars. Cars often ship with circulate air feature in the aircon, and people use it aggressively, nonchalantly at least where I live, having no idea about the dangers of possible hypoxia and sleepiness that might be inducing in them while driving. It is absolutely critical in my opinion for cars to have CO2 monitors. We put so many sensors in cars these days that this seems to be a really cheap and fairly high value of life addition that could possibly prevent accidents on roads. I keep a portable CO2 sensor in my car at all times, because sometimes circulation is not something I can avoid when stuck in traffic or when passing by a drain.
npunt 11 hours ago||
Got a firsthand experience with this. I was dropping off my girlfriend and we stopped to talk in the car, with all the windows up. Over the course of the conversation we got more and more agitated at each other until I had a thought and pulled my Aranet out from my backpack. It was >3000ppm CO2. We opened windows and within 2 minutes all the agitation went away.
hypfer 10 hours ago|||
To be fair, that might not just have been the CO2 dropping, but also the pattern interrupt + giving you both an easy and face-saving way out of that situation.
the_gipsy 6 hours ago|||
Or, you became aware of the agitation and interrupted it. The CO2 was a placebo. You have invested already in the idea, it all clicked in your mind.
mbo 6 hours ago||
I'm not sure this is a helpful comment. This is a common story with many medications, where someone notices their feelings are off and suddenly remembers that there is a probable root cause. It's why medications list side effects.
prodigycorp 8 hours ago|||
Your comment actually has me convinced that this isn't an issue. I've been a recirculation dude for my entire life, I literally don't drive any other way.
_thisdot 11 hours ago|||
Relevant video of someone experimenting with a CO2 monitor in a car: https://youtu.be/hr9w-ZixAqc
inigyou 10 hours ago|||
Buildup of CO2 and reduction in O2 are two different effects. We're not in danger of running out of O2 in any everyday situation.
infofarmer 11 hours ago|||
Yeah, I measured over 5000ppm in a taxi with two passengers. Showed the driver how to enable air intake (he didn’t know about the feature) and tried to explain this is deadly. Pretty sure this is commonplace globally.

Generally it’s a miracle to me so many people survive traffic on public roads, statistically.

ErroneousBosh 11 hours ago|||
Cars are not sufficiently sealed for that to make any kind of a difference.
kashishgrover 11 hours ago||
Try it yourself. They really are
bob1029 8 hours ago|||
[dead]
esikich 11 hours ago||
Cars aren't hermetically sealed vessel. This is hilarious.
kashishgrover 11 hours ago||
You think that’s stopping CO2 buildup?
esikich 4 hours ago||
Lol yes
Aperocky 10 hours ago||
This article is rated 100% on my AI smell meter, making it less trustworthy despite convincing arguments.

For instance, I'm now really only sure that author measured a 2000 ppm CO2 in a meeting room once. Everything else could just be LLM trying to invent convincing argument.

girvo 9 hours ago||
Glad someone else is saying it. It has that exact LLM cadence to it, horrible.

The worst thing is, I'm pretty sure humans are starting to mimic that cadence too...

LordDragonfang 2 hours ago|||
Yeah, I clocked it as AI the moment I read "Here is the uncomfortable part". Pangram detects it as 100% AI-generated:

https://www.pangram.com/history/c410d4b4-abfd-4ca0-b52d-db0d...

bob1029 7 hours ago||
I've noticed that cooking with gas is easily the worst thing for CO2 levels. Even with lots of ventilation my kitchen will hover around 1200ppm until it's over with.

I swear I can feel the 430ppm already. I was born into a world with 340ppm. I can't imagine what it's going to be like when we hit 500+ globally.

I'm in the market for an active CO2 scrubbing solution that I could deploy at home. Scrubbing the entire planet won't work but I could make a small room feel like 1960 again.

mikestew 4 hours ago||
I swear I can feel the 430ppm already. I was born into a world with 340ppm.

You’re probably about my age, then, and I’m old. It might not be the baseline CO2 levels. :-)

Kidding aside, that would be hard thing to baseline.

OutOfHere 4 hours ago|||
Controlling indoor CO2 is important, but it's a proxy metric for the escalation in indoor bioeffluent VOCs which are a tiring subset of total VOCs. This is why scrubbing indoor CO2 will by itself never produce the pro-cognitive result you want. See https://www.aivc.org/resource/effects-carbon-dioxide-and-wit...

Also, when you cook on a gas stove, it produces numerous other toxic gases which too are critical to ventilate before they even escalate, failing which the lung cancer is risked.

Scrubbing indoor CO2 is sensible only when you want to go below the outdoor CO2 level, not at levels above it.

Schiendelman 6 hours ago||
What have you found so far?
throwaway81523 12 hours ago||
Don't forget too, if the CO2 is 1000 ppm, then half of the air in each breath you inhale was recently exhaled by someone else. Yes, airborne viruses are still spreading. I still wear an N95 mask whenever I'm in an indoor space with other people outside of home.

IKEA now has a remarkably cheap ($35) air quality monitor that measures CO2 as well as PM:

https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/alpstuga-air-quality-sensor-sma...

I don't have one yet but plan to pick one up soon. A CO2 sensor alone from Adafruit is $50+, though that one is more precise. I bought it a while ago and it's still sitting in my todo bin.

bebe9494i4 12 hours ago||
I do not give a damm about masks, but yet another reason to prefer work from home.

Flu and other air transmited diseases should be treated as a workplace injury, with proper compensation!

inigyou 10 hours ago||
Would that not induce a responsibility to take reasonable preventative measures like wearing masks?
bebe9494i4 8 hours ago||
Maybe, but masks do not work. You have to replace it every 30 minutes to preserve filtering capabilities And most germs transfer over touch.

I want this implemented to fullest, preferably with full hazmat suit. Yet more reasons to support work from home.

throwaway81523 8 hours ago||
I haven't heard that 30 minute figure before, you have a reference? I've seen articles about medical workers using masks for much longer.

Installing air filtration and UVC in classrooms and meeting rooms certainly helps.

Since the mask shortage cleared up, HCW have been advised to stop re-using them. I re-use mind til they get dirty, but maybe I should replace them more often.

https://apnews.com/article/fda-n95-masks-plentiful-should-no... (2021)

2021 reddit thread: https://old.reddit.com/r/Masks4All/comments/lhnj10/one_of_th...

bebe9494i4 4 hours ago||
Condensation of moisture from breath...
boernard 11 hours ago|||
could you observe an effect on your health after starting to wear the mask? like sickness days per year?
hypfer 11 hours ago||
Doing that all the time might not be the best idea for your immune system and neither for the respiratory one too.

The first needs to occasionally see new threats to stay up to date and healthy. The second will not like the constantly restricted airflow.

chrisweekly 6 hours ago||
I bought a $30 CO2 monitor a couple months ago, and it confirmed my suspicion that my home office (a normal room about 12' x 18') reaches unhealthy levels over 1000ppm after just a few hours; opening a window quickly restores levels to the 400-700ppm range. Afternoon mental fatigue solved. Highly recommended.
abixb 6 hours ago|
Fantastic, did you go for a particular "trusted" brand or just went on vibes? How should one rationally approach shopping for a CO2 monitor for home office use?
chrisweekly 1 hour ago||
I didn't do much research, got a really basic "Temtop" model from Amazon.
smooc 9 hours ago||
I do feel impaired around 1000ppm. I get headaches. At home I got a few Air Gradient Ones (no affiliation, but they are great) and connected those to my Home Assistant to turn up the ventilation in stages (above 650ppm go up, above 800ppm again, at 1000ppm max). I also do this for the bedrooms, cause in the night it goes up too.

The article talks about "within the hour". With four people in my living room doing normal things it jumps within 20min to around 1000ppm. If I am wrestling with my kids much sooner.

In offices companies often neglect it.

edit: if you are cooking on gas it also has an immediate effect on co2 of course apart from other small particles

Royce-CMR 2 hours ago||
I’ve had a Co2 monitor for years. I get headaches from increased Co2 levels plus the lethargic state. It’s been revolutionary - including on long drives where it’s def saved me from crashing.

Personal opinion, you can see cognitive decline at 1000 ppm. Not “ur a zombie” but it’s there. Airflow has vastly improved my life.

Another personal opinion - the coporate stupidity and inane behavior we all see tracks back in part to Co2 levels turning people into quasi zombies. It’s a lot easier to just not care, and things don’t click like they should, when in higher Co2 environments - pushing everyone to rote, process, unthinking approaches. Sounds familiar?

hanspagel 10 hours ago||
Not gonna happen in Germany. I don’t think I‘ve ever seen a windowless room here and it’s common to open all windows at once for a few minutes, just to replace as much air as possible:

Stoßlüften.

aurelwu 4 hours ago||
Take a look at indoorco2map.com and you will find plenty of places in Germany with bad air measured in a crowd data collection effort. Most notably doctor‘s offices are often very bad. Many supermarkets too. Schools are not well measurable this way but academic research shows they often are at 2000-3000 ppm or even higher. (Disclaimer: I built the website/App)
em-bee 9 hours ago||
when i read the article i thought that maybe this is where german ingenuity comes from.

but then germany hasn't been doing so well lately, and people who do most of their work outside should also be doing better...

relwin 1 hour ago||
My local library displays CO2 level on an inconspicuous wall fixture as part of the HVAC system. If the level gets too high large shutters (near the ceiling) open directly to the outside, supposedly as a failsafe. The head librarian said he's never seen them open in the past dozen years. After 20 years of patronizing this facility I now know a little bit more on its operation.
rikschennink 11 hours ago|
“That number matters more than it looks.”, then the next paragraph starts with “Here is the uncomfortable part”, and then I closed the tab.
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