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Posted by bauc 5 hours ago

Microsoft fire idTech team at Id software(gamefromscratch.com)
427 points | 417 commentspage 4
trencedamp 2 hours ago|
Michael Maynard's tweet reads like Trump stuff. iD are obviously monumentally important in game history but I disagree with his points that the Doom, doom eternal and doom dark ages are the best fps games ever made. Doom was revolutionary, but are we really going to say the other two are up there? I don't think they'd even be in my top twenty.

I get that he's angry and hurt and defending his colleagues but telling me doom dark ages is better than half-life 2 is just picking a fight

falcor84 5 hours ago||
> Yet today, Microsoft/XBOX decided half the team was deemed USELESS and needed to be let go

I feel that this is an incredibly unfair and demeaning take both towards Microsoft and towards the people being fired. As I see it, getting fired is just like being dumped by a romantic partner. It typically says very little about your value as an individual, and almost everything about their current situation and how the relationship with you fits into their future plans and the other opportunities available to them.

dymk 5 hours ago||
It’s nothing like a romantic relationship, and it does say something about msft: they failed at planning and managing company resources, and as a result fired a bunch of people
falcor84 2 hours ago||
It sounds like you're fully agreeing with me that it has pretty much nothing to do with the value of the employees and essentially everything with how the employees no longer fit the company's plans.
dymk 1 hour ago||
I think if you read the words I wrote you’ll find I did not agree with your framing
falcor84 1 hour ago||
I promise that I did, and I did not find that; you said that it's "nothing like" but then the rest of it seems to match what I was saying in my analogy. Would you mind please saying more about the difference you see between our opinions?
MisterTea 5 hours ago|||
Nice downplay. This is getting dumped by a romantic partner who supported you by paying for your rent, food and other needs/wants.
lenerdenator 5 hours ago||
The problem with the romantic partner analogy is that when things ended with my ex, I didn't lose my career continuity, health insurance and income stream that goes to pay my rent.

Corporate culture spent the last fifty years convincing the working public that it was important to identify with your job, career, and most importantly, your employer. That's how you get the most out of a worker. If they identify themselves as - just as examples - "parent" or "spouse" first, those priorities can get in the way of their value creation for you.

The employer can, of course, drop you as an employee pretty much at-will. You'll be left with shame, disillusionment, and potential financial setbacks, but they'll have accumulated the value from your best efforts.

ButlerianJihad 4 hours ago||
> didn't lose my career continuity, health insurance and income stream that goes to pay my rent.

But that is basically the minimum set of consequences for any homemaker or non-breadwinner when a marriage fails.

Think about women through the centuries, who’ve been faced with basically homelessness and poverty, and the full responsibility to all their children, if they divorced or separated.

And then it becomes crystal clear why many people cling to suboptimal and abusive relationships, because really, we need one another.

lenerdenator 4 hours ago||
At least in today's world, there are things like alimony that are supposed to go to the prevention of that issue. It's not perfect, but it's at least something.

There's also an increase in the number of women who are able to independently support themselves.

People are also less likely to get married now for that exact reason.

If there were some sort of alimony for employment, even if just for a year, and a public health insurance option to fall back on, you probably don't see that much outrage from the people who have lost their jobs. But then, you'd also, at least in the minds of certain employers, see less willingness on the behalf of employees to throw their whole lives into the production of value for the business, and I think that's part of why you don't see guaranteed severance and public health insurance in the US.

moogly 5 hours ago||
On the same day they release the new Dark Ages DLC. The game industry continues to be brutal.
hbn 3 hours ago|
DOOM was always intended to be brutal, but not like this
feelamee 5 hours ago||
I don't really understand. Id Software is owned by Microsoft? Why Microsoft can laying off employees of Id Software?
starkparker 5 hours ago||
ZeniMax, the parent holding company of Bethesda Softworks/Bethesda Games, bought iD in 2009.[1] Microsoft bought ZeniMax for $7.5B in 2020 and assigned it to the Xbox division.[2] ZeniMax's board was subsequently dissolved, so it's entirely Microsoft.[3]

1: https://www.gamedeveloper.com/game-platforms/bethesda-parent...

2: https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2020/09/21/welcoming-bethesda-to...

3: https://www.gamespot.com/articles/zenimax-board-of-directors...

genxy 4 hours ago|||
If that isn't a perfect piece of antitrust evidence, how crazy is it that MS can reach across a whole industry and buy the company that bought the company that defined the games industry, with Carmack playing revenge of the nerds boy genius. Everything about it is perfect for a locally produced drama somewhere in eastern europe.
advisedwang 5 hours ago||
Yes. When ZeniMax owns Id, and Microsoft owns ZeniMax.
neko_ranger 4 hours ago||
Either John or John should buy back the Id Software name
markus_zhang 3 hours ago|
I don’t think they are interested or have the $$$. It probably worths like a billion?
sowbug 2 hours ago||
Probably a good way to become a millionaire, in the Branson sense of the word.
colechristensen 5 hours ago||
why wouldn't they just sell it?

I'm deeply opposed to game distribution companies (console makers) being allowed to acquire game studios.

In the same way that theaters and streaming services shouldn't be allowed to do acquisitions.

Disney owning whatever ridiculous proportion of media by buying everything serves nobody's best interest.

mrweasel 5 hours ago||
> why wouldn't they just sell it?

Because someone who cares might buy the brand and do something good with it and be a competitor. ID Software is still a strong brand, and it the hands of another gaming studio it might pose a threat.

ixwt 5 hours ago|||
Likely one of two reasons, probably both:

1. Tax write off.

2. Acquiring a competitor, and then closing them down is a way to decrease competiton.

kreco 5 hours ago||
> why wouldn't they just sell it?

Serious question, is there any kind of entities that can be owned, but not "dismantled", if you don't want it you need to try to sell or make it independant.

Would there be any chance to make it a thing when a company is bought?

jayd16 5 hours ago|||
It's fairly common for a studio to buy its independence and keep the team intact. You do need fresh money to make it worthwhile and give the new studio runway.

There's also the case where new teams can self organize to form new studios in the aftermath. That's also a factor on whether it makes sense to pay for the previous name or game license, or simply start over.

wmf 5 hours ago||||
I get the impression European companies are like this. In general if a company can't be reorganized/dismantled that makes it worth so little (or negative) that no one will acquire it.
colechristensen 5 hours ago|||
You can put various kinds of "poison pill" in the shareholder rights agreements which are binding contracts on both the company and its shareholders in response to events.

You can also make all sort of post acquisition agreements.

These usually take the form of making stock available at steep discounts in response to actions e.g. in the event of a 20% layoff any employee from the time of acquisition can purchase stock at $0.10 a share, any one laid off will get a million dollars severance, if acquirer shuts down the studio the original founders have the right to re-acquire all IP and trademarks for $1 -- those sorts of things.

This isn't a specific kind of entity, any business entity can have Shareholder Rights Agreements. It's a bit of a game to get the terms right so everything is in good faith and agreeable.

dwroberts 4 hours ago||
Fast forward a few years “where did all our institutional knowledge about performance and rendering go??”

So utterly predictable it’s infuriating

ranger_danger 5 hours ago||
q3dm17 for life.
hamdingers 5 hours ago||
https://thelongestyard.link/q3a-demo/
whacked_new 4 hours ago||
q3dm17 in the browser... what a time to be alive
amlib 5 hours ago|||
Upon reading your comment I just booted quake3 in q3dm17 nightmare mode and immediately started having a blast. Was about to win the match but a bot took both the rail gun and the quad damage, it was a blood bath.
genxy 5 hours ago|||
My favorite was rail brushing people off during pad jumps. Because they died from hitting the level box, they would get a -1. At work we had a match where every other player had a negative score. That aid, they were good sports about it and I didn't do it all the time.
markus_zhang 3 hours ago|||
I was thinking, is that the space hopping map? Because I didn’t play much MP back in the day but that map was a blast.

Checked online and indeed that’s the one! I wonder what is the biggest online community nowadays that I can play MP with.

jaffa2 5 hours ago||
Who designed that map?

Anyone know?

Did it appear First in quake or quake III?

starkparker 5 hours ago|||
I've seen Brandon James (KillMe) credited in multiple places.[1][2] James left iD mid-development of Quake 3, so the rest of the level design team likely also contributed after that point.[3]

1: https://www.quora.com/Quake-series-Who-was-the-level-designe...

2: https://www.shacknews.com/article/101156/rocket-jump-quake-a...

3: https://www.shacknews.com/article/181/more-on-bjames-id-depa...

michaelsbradley 5 hours ago|||
First appeared in Quake 3 Arena’s public demo
SurajMishra 5 hours ago||
Really a sad day. DOOM was fantastic.
tibbydudeza 4 hours ago|
Unreal Engine has become a commodity, and it is easier to recruit people with experience - even CD Projekt Red gave up.

The only major studios doing their own thing is Rockstar and Bethesda.

I would not include Cloud Imperium here because they are forever in a beta state with no clear ship date in the future for their two games.

hbn 2 hours ago||
> The only major studios doing their own thing is Rockstar and Bethesda.

Don't forget Nintendo. It's pretty damn impressive what they managed to pull off on the Switch with more or less circa-2015 Android hardware. Mario Odyssey looks beautiful and runs at a mostly stable 60fps.

Thaxll 43 minutes ago|||
Most major studios are using custom engines, Ubisoft, EA, Activision, Take2, Blizzard ect...
pipes 3 hours ago|||
Technology advances and platform variation were a key part of why games where so exciting. It feels like that period is now over, it is difficult to get excited any of it now. The whole industry just seems stale and corporate. Or maybe I'm just old.

What's really odd is it is now easier than ever to create games but at the same time it feels like we won't see revolutionary games like doom, quake, Goldeneye or half life ever again. These were created by small teams that could inject their personality into them.

My other theory is game creation was previously so hard, it required genius level iq teams to do it so we quite regularly got mind blowingly amazing games. Now we get cut scenes instead.

to11mtm 3 hours ago|||
> The only major studios doing their own thing is Rockstar and Bethesda.

Is Ubisoft's Anvil still alive or is it just in an unknown status after they cancelled a few upcoming titles?

That said, Capcom is still doing their own thing via RE Engine...

Not sure about any others...

sgt 3 hours ago|||
I actually started my game now in LÖVE 2d.
bathtub365 4 hours ago||
Also IO Interactive, Guerrilla Games, Santa Monica Studio
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