Posted by zaikunzhang 5 hours ago
To me this effect doesn’t seem to reflect on AI very much, it seems to reflect on humans. Like maybe this is more evidence of the Babble Hypothesis and the incentives in research than AI, no?
the last decade of US politics demonstrates just how powerful willingness to produce put strips all other critical skills.
AI exacerbates this and exposes fundamental human heuristic frailty.
'It’s not about the architecture per se,' Evans says. 'It’s about the incentives.'"
It would have been useful to check whether less original work was already getting more citations before AI adoption. That could reflect broader trends and network effects: heavily cited research areas attract more authors optimizing for citations, so high-productivity researchers end up clustering on the same topics.
But also just thinking about your point for one second: in your mind, how else would they argue for the conclusion if not by checking the trend over time? Like what is the precise implication here?
The aim of many scientists is discovery, publishing is a side chore to survive and to get funding. Automate paperwork and you get more time for discovering.
Disclosure: Physicist.
I was also in academics myself up to the Master's level (research track), and personally had to deal with the politics of getting support for what I wanted to work on; that experience helped to discourage me from going on to a PhD, as I'd rather have proper leeway to work on what I really prefer and take avenues I find interesting.
lol how old are these people? You have better chance at fame and glory if you started a stupid YouTube channel.
I work in industry. In that case, nobody who meets me would ever know that I have patents. I would consider them to be a useful add-on for my resume should I ever need one, but it doesn't define me.
They do this in various ways, like establishing paper pipelines, collecting rents on labs and committees, focusing on money layer, using their profiles and citation count to help with acceptance of papers of other people , etc. You talk to them and they can’t explain their papers beyond a superficial introduction.
They collect huge citations, travel and give talk on the winner horses, collect credit, which feeds back into this fraudulent scheme. A scientist used to be a scientist not long ago, not a credit collector.
I wonder if Google could invent a new metric to expose them (weak ratio of first authorship, etc).
It's a game of cultural tribalism. The only thing worse for one than not engaging is to upset the status quo unblessed.
Please feel free to disagree with me! I am keen to hear more anecdotes to get more datapoints.
I think the flattening of progress is the most interesting dimension to the article. For an example a useful biological product discovery with a nonlinear path to get to there, look at the Taq polymerase (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taq_polymerase). Without some NSF funded exploratory ecological research by Tom Brock in Yellowstone Hot Springs to test the theoretical limit of life at high temperatures (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermus_aquaticus) we never get to the Taq polymerase, we never get reliable/robust PCR (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymerase_chain_reaction), which is now a gold standard method in both clinical and environmental testing! It is rather improbable to think that large language models would associate those domain connections across the topic (molecular biotechnology + ecology + microbial physiology). I also did some exploratory work with text embedding models people might use for RAG and challenged them with an open source scientific MCA question dataset, generalist embedders performed worse vs. domain specific embedders trained on scientific corpora (doesn't surprise me at all). However, if everything regresses to the median of the universe of possible knowledge, it seems like scientific leaning frontier models would get locked into this asymptotic flattening before turning cashflow positive for model vendors OR they become so locked down that only big pharma, state actors, or big ag can afford the API rates and vetting process.
I like LLM's but this writing style is like eating the same dish 4 times a day.
We tend to think that obvious potential is the same as realized potential, for new technology.
For any specific context, there are generally innumerable smaller adaptations and capability thresholds that have to be crossed. And the price for that journey is often temporary loss off overt productivity.
This seems like some variant of "why don't you short the market and become rich". It doesn't work like that.
Should be interesting to see what happens to the programming profession when there isn't anyone around anymore who actually knows programming.
many children have an unlimited capacity to ask "why?". many adults are the same
if the abilities of AI are finite, then we will continue to have burning curiosity, questions to ask, and discoveries to make
The first type happens when you are enthusiastically engaged in a topic, which LLMs will likely enhance.
The second type happens as a by-product of solving a, perhaps deeply uncomfortably, difficult problem. This is what people are talking about when they say LLMs will hamper human cognition. Instead of sitting there for an hour and struggling, people will instead reflexively give in and ask an LLM to solve it for them.
I think in most cases, understanding is the point. we don't expect students to derive general relativity before doing astrophysics. re-invention is only a tool for understanding
The flip side is even more interesting. There’s a great number of electrical engineers with significant physics backgrounds who don’t really understand how electricity actually works, but they can still solve useful problems. By understanding I mean they can describe what underlying physical phenomena reactance represents etc.
When the child is able to go to YouTube and find a tutorial rather than having to puzzle it out, yes, it absolute does. We've seen this for decades now.
> its output can be novel or good, but rarely both at the same time.
> rarely
That is not a viewpoint they can't do something useful and new.
With that criteria, he could be talking about anyone.
I find it rare that people critiquing AI today, actually hold people to the same standards. Or are as enthusiastic about referencing ways machines keep surpassing us, as for ways they have not yet, when speaking about limits for progress.
LLMs are fundamentally limited by their architecture to only return a token predicted by a statistical inference, essentially lossy decompression.
It's like arguing that taking an image, compressing it with JPEG and low quality, then decompressing it into something blurry with some random color values thrown in is creating new art.
No one is arguing that everything a human has created is good. No one is arguing that LLMs can't be useful.
Sutton is arguing that it can't be novel. Cherry picking a couple of words doesn't change his argument, which is very clear.