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Posted by barry-cotter 12 hours ago

If You Build It, They Will Come(www.benlandautaylor.com)
204 points | 71 commentspage 2
kazinator 5 hours ago|
No, if you build it, they won't come. Most such projects never see adoption by users.
biscuits1 6 hours ago||
". . . but our social scripts telling people to produce social fabric . . ."

The author of the article may benefit from reading "Bowling Alone" by Robert Putnam. Although it's now in a class of books on American history, it explores this topic in depth.

afaik, a society needs to face a potential collective crisis to "produce its own fabric." Of course, the Internet (or technology), by its nature, is actually collating society while keeping many comfortable through its economics, and thus the script is to keep isolated.

I also believe Jim Morrison, the lead of The Doors, made the prediction of technological music collation some 60 years ago.

PeterHolzwarth 2 hours ago|
"a society needs to face a potential collective crisis to "produce its own fabric.""

Good point - the linked article, and the article it itself links to, essentially, but without realizing it, indicates the American experience of WWII.

The entire country suddenly and powerfully altered to support total war. Every fit man under 40, pretty much, shipped off to be in the military (you can see hints of this in late-war films, where each male actor has a line explaining why they are in an American setting vs being in foreign lands ("I'll be shipping in out in two months, so I have time to solve this murder mystery til then")).

All industry shifted to produce the massive needs of the war, vast swathes of the female populace brought in from being a housewife to become factory workers creating the materiel for combat at a truly astonishing scale.

All of this jarring shock to the entire country creating the novel collective experience of total war that temporarily upended and transformed the society. All this creating that "collective crisis."

low_earth_orbit 55 minutes ago||
That's an interesting take - although there was literally a global pandemic just a few years ago.

Granted, the nature of surviving that pandemic involved reinforcing several isolating habits on a societal scale.

I'm curious as to what situations would actually result in more fabric produced on a large scale.

salahadawi 10 hours ago||
This makes me realize I should show my appreciation to organizers more. It’s easy to take events for granted.
qurren 9 hours ago||
During my grad school years, back when the world was less competitive, I organized a LOT of events. I liked giving to the community, I had space to do it, and my needs were taken care of.

Nowadays I feel like anything I do either needs to be either (a) getting me closer to opportunities to build a living or wealth OR (b) individual recharging time.

When my poke bowl costs $24 (yes, it actually did), and my job application acceptance rate has cratered from ~100% to 10% over the past 10 years, I don't really have space to give to the community for free anymore.

ryandrake 7 hours ago||
I think this is why all the community events and social things in my neighborhood are organized by a few wealthy retirees. The rest of us are too busy spending all our time breaking our backs trying to survive another week so that maybe when we are 80 we’ll be able to get involved with something.
joveian 1 hour ago||
A quick look at your comments history suggests you are in the US. Of course individual circumstances can vary but overall looking at median disposable income adjusted for purchasing power parity (median equivalised household disposable income), the US is the wealthiest non-tiny country in the world (tecnically this data only covers the OECD and Luxembourg, a country smaller than many US cities, is the wealthiest).

https://www.oecd.org/en/publications/2024/06/society-at-a-gl...

patcon 9 hours ago|||
<3
pphysch 9 hours ago||
Well, at least the organizers that care. There's definitely a class of grifter organizers that view events as an opportunity to profit from high entry fees and low production quality / relying on volunteers.
Felger 9 hours ago||
Thought it would be about feds breaking in because you built a nuclear reactor in your basement while exposing your neighbors to some radiation.
cynicalsecurity 9 hours ago||
That was a Rorschach test.
samxli 8 hours ago||
[dead]
wxw 7 hours ago||
Agreed. And, it's really not that hard to organize a simple event.

I used to talk myself out of it all the time, but have recently just been going for it. It's been great.

puttycat 5 hours ago||
Good Toastmasters clubs are a good example of this.
fellowniusmonk 8 hours ago||
This is entirely about social friction.

Blaming the people trained by the smartest people on earth (with population level ad sales and a/b testing) to reject friction until they start to feel it as a poison isn't their fault.

We built a low friction co-working space that was mostly a social club after work hours, and by reducing that friction even the most intense introverts ended up integrated.

It's not difficult it's just hard.

flakiness 6 hours ago||
This sounds very American (in a good way to be clear). I wonder how this applies internationally.
alentred 6 hours ago|
I think it does. It sounds generally human to me. And I am not an American FWIW.
Dig1t 6 hours ago|
I think this is a little bit oversimplified and I don't know that it's even true at all. It's basically the opposite story of what's told by "Bowling Alone".

That book was written in the year 2000, when the author observed that institutions that previously provided social fabric were all dying. The United States used to have a robust web of institutions that provided social fabric and they have mostly all gone away, and they went away because people just stopped attending them, seemingly because of lack of interest. This was then proceeded by the "problem of social alienation" that this author is talking about.

This problem of social alienation was predicted long ago by the people who worried about the collapse of institutions that provided social capital.

As someone who does organize many group events, I can tell you that it's really hard to get people to show up. A good percentage of people bail last minute or don't respond to invitations at all. The problem gets worse the older people get as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowling_Alone

MikeynJerry 1 hour ago||
Created an account just to echo this. I don't agree with the author at all.

I moved to Seattle about a year ago and it's taken just as long to build something that vaguely resembles a small board game community, and I still have issues with people ghosting or refusing to play anything other than what they brought.

And despite having multiple regulars, none of them have ever invited me to anything. Not even other game nights. Multiple times I have heard something akin to "Oh yeah I invited X and Y (other regulars) to Z event" and it hurts every single time.

Two days ago, as the last two people were leaving, one asked the other if they wanted to join them for an improv festival that happened today. I love improv. They declined, so I was awkwardly like: "hey, I would love to go with you, can you send me the details when you get home?" and all I got was radio silence.

The frustrating part is that the person I asked had just gone through a rough breakup, so for the past few weeks I'd been inviting him to a bunch of stuff, even going out of my way to organize stuff just for him to get out of the house, because I thought we were good friends.

Sorry for the rant.

TL;DR: I agree that it's really hard to get people to show up and I don't know what it will take to change that, but if you figure it out, please let me know.

t0mpr1c3 5 hours ago||
I don't believe it either. This advice has probably never been less true.

Perhaps there is just a certain kind of Substack journalist who chooses some dubious piece of conventional wisdom every Sunday to sermonize about.

PeterHolzwarth 2 hours ago||
I don't know that I would characterize the typical Substack writer as a "journalist."

It's just opinion blogging.

t0mpr1c3 55 minutes ago||
They get paid.

That's why they write it on Substack not Blogger or Wix.

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