Top
Best
New

Posted by shehuphd 1 hour ago

The whole premise of checking for human writing is daft(mohammedshehu.com)
35 points | 67 comments
GMoromisato 1 minute ago|
I don't think the Stephen Hawkings example is compelling. No one argues against AI for transcription or to help paralyzed people communicate. Stephen Hawkings still wrote every word of his book.

But it does raise the question: what if he hadn't? What if Stephen Hawkings had secretly used an LLM to write A Brief History of Time? Imagine that we find a letter in which he confesses that he used an LLM to write the book. Would that lessen the value of the book? I don't think so.

I think we need to distinguish between two arguments:

A. You should avoid AI writing because it is bad. B. You should avoid AI writing because it isn't human.

I find myself in camp A. I think a lot of AI writing is bad, but (1) it gets better when a human spends time working on it, and (2) AI is improving over time and its writing is getting better.

For me, an AI writing detector is about curation. It is hard to figure out what's worth reading, so filtering out low-effort AI writing is a good heuristic.

But what I really want is a Good-Writing Detector. I don't care how a piece of writing happened--all I care about is if I'm going to value reading it.

In contrast, camp B is never going to be happy with AI writing. It doesn't matter how good it gets; even if it is better than human writing, camp B will not approve.

I get that, even if I don't agree. There is virtue in sacrificing to support an ideal.

QuadmasterXLII 55 minutes ago||
Why are comments turned off on the blog posts itself? I was planning to make 200 thoughtful comments with the cheapest AI I could find to prove a point, but the lack of an option to comment shows you already know the point: something has to gate participation in the conversation. Human authorship is a fantastic gate, which keeps me from pulling my stunt here, where that gate is firmly in place. You could achieve almost the same goals by requiring blog comments to hash to a number ending in X 0s, but requiring human writing is a strict improvement on this. A true devotee of “human writing is not fundamentally better than ai” is signing themselves up to never read a block of text written with actual effort again without some proof of effort mechanism.
altcognito 42 minutes ago||
I guarantee you that people are using AI to write posts here.

I do think that there is a gate against poorly written comments.

tptacek 23 minutes ago||
This is probably true in the sense that it's also probably true that people are, at the margins, successfully manipulating votes, but it's part of the premise of the site that the moderators are working to counter that. And, like vote rigging, it's a cat-and-mouse game, so you're never going to get a wholly satisfying explanation of how they've decisively resolved the problem. Like a lot of problems in security and antiabuse, the practical solutions are essentially economic in nature: defenders do enough work to make attacks too expensive to be worth it.
tonyarkles 39 minutes ago|||
Yeah, in a small way I agree with the post, but agree with you as well. For me: human authorship is a pretty solid gate, because the vast majority of people are not doing the work described in the post’s hypothetical “argue through 6 drafts and iterations, wholesale rearrangement, critically considering the content, adjusting further”.

I don’t exactly care about whether or not the actual bits on my screen came directly from a human’s fingers on a keyboard or from an LLM, but I do care about whether or not the material is good, well-written, appropriately concise (which varies both on the content and the audience), fact-checked, and I’m sure a bunch more factors. Some humans fail at these criteria as well.

Human authorship is an imperfect proxy for quality, but saying it’s imperfect doesn’t mean that it’s worthless… quite the opposite, I’d argue. Even if there are flaws in the writing, it at least shows that the author tried, which I do personally put value on. Copy & pasting Claude output without even fact-checking… that’s inherently low effort and if that’s what I wanted to read, I’d just ask Claude myself.

I use LLMs in my workflow to varying degrees depending on the task, but their output never makes it into the wild without serious scrutiny. Sometimes their code is better than what I’d have written, which is great. Sometimes it completely misses the point and needs significant re-steering several times, to the point where it’s easier if I write it myself. For writing, I’ll happily have an LLM harness put together a document explaining a dataflow through a complex system; I ask it to include source filenames and line numbers and can do my own validation before accepting it as truth.

falsaberN1 22 minutes ago|||
That's...not proving a point, that's vandalism.
tptacek 20 minutes ago||
Right, just like every time someone posts an AI comment on HN.
AlienRobot 41 minutes ago|||
Idea for a captcha

Are there infinitely many primes p such that p − 1 is a perfect square? In other words: Are there infinitely many primes of the form n2 + 1?

Answer: [ ]

( ) I don't know

nvme0n1p1 45 minutes ago||
Authors aren't obligated to let strangers publish content on their site, any more than you're obligated to let me exercise my free speech by spraypainting messages on your house. You're not being gatekept from the conversation. You can participate in the conversation by publishing on your own site, just like the author has.
slopinthebag 44 minutes ago||
[flagged]
nvme0n1p1 41 minutes ago|||
The author is a person and they get to decide what they want out of life. Even if you disagree. If you get to decide how they live their life, can I decide how you live yours?

Why wouldn't you want spraypainted messages which bring real value to your house?

tikhonj 41 minutes ago||
I mean, if you wrote an article like "the whole premise of disallowing people to spray-paint your house is daft"...

The real point isn't that they're "obligated" to allow AI-generated comments, but that they're being something of a hypocrite.

nvme0n1p1 34 minutes ago||
They aren't contradictary. A better analogy would be if they wrote an article like "the whole premise of banning spraypaint is daft", they still wouldn't want random strangers spraypainting their bedroom.

"Dogs should be legal to have as pets" yet "I don't own a dog"

"Banning sushi is daft" yet "I don't want sushi smeared on my house"

"Checking for human writing is daft" yet "I don' want strangers to be able to SSH to my webserver and edit the HTML files with their comments"

auggierose 42 minutes ago|||
I am pretty sure you cannot send 1000 high value AI generated emails.
dijksterhuis 31 minutes ago||
i believe the GP is probably acutely aware of that considering they were quite obviously being sarcastic
orbital-decay 42 minutes ago||
>I don’t care whether you wrote every word with your bare hands. I care whether the thought is yours, whether you exercised judgment, whether the result deserves my attention and whether you’ll stand behind it once it leaves your screen.

Alright, compare the following degrees of autonomy:

- I wrote it, made sure everything's correct, let the LLM proofread it/translate it to English, and checked it afterwards

- I had brief scattered notes with no coherent idea, then threw it at an LLM to make it an article in whatever way it feels best because I don't care

- I had a three word prompt "Write about X", then a deep research agent spent ungodly amount of tokens and search and scraping requests, and put up an article (at least some grounding and it can depend on the harness quality)

- I had a three word prompt "Write about X", then a model did it in a single call with no real-life grounding at all

You're looking at my clearly generated article. Can you tell what is mine, what is collected from the web or another source by the agent, and what is sourced from the model's own knowledge? Sourcing is exactly what the generated text obfuscates.

twoodfin 34 minutes ago||
The difference between the first and the rest is usually blindingly obvious: LLMs are really terrible at crafting their own coherent narrative.
sowbug 23 minutes ago|||
Those issues existed well before LLMs. Everyone who reads needs a BS detector. It's unfortunate, though, that many such detectors have been replaced with AI detectors.
trollbridge 17 minutes ago||
Part of the problem is that there’s far more BS now.
sowbug 13 minutes ago||
That's true. I don't know how to solve it, other than booking a long vacation until https://xkcd.com/810/.
AnimalMuppet 14 minutes ago||
I hate LLM-generated writing, because it reads like corporate-speak. There's no voice there. I hate the experience of reading it.

Completely apart from that, I also hate posts that look like a 15-year-old on /r/thisisdeep, whether or not they used an LLM to wrap a lot of words around their absence-of-much-of-an-idea.

So I can hate posts on more than one axis. I hate the lack of decent writing, and I hate the lack of decent thinking.

I can make an exception for LLM translation, if the thinking is good. Even if the writing isn't perfect, it's better than LLM-generated-from-a-prompt text, because it has something with a real voice to start from.

skippyfish 45 minutes ago||
The fact this is AI-generated aside - I guess that's to be expected - it's a clever position to take if you completely ignore the realities of LLM-produced writing and imagine some fantasy world where AI blogs bring us profound wisdom and are unfairly targeted by pitchfork-wielding mobs.

Although there are some niche uses where LLMs assist or enhance the creative process, the vast majority of machine writing exists specifically because it takes zero effort and allows you to spam human cognition at an unprecedented scale. There is no redeeming quality to 99%+ of AI-generated LinkedIn posts, AI-generated books on Amazon, and so on.

The style-based heuristics we previously had at our disposal to filter zero-effort content no longer work here, so detecting LLM text is the next fallback.

brendanfinan 55 minutes ago||
The article is quick to shoehorn LLMs in as the last of a long list of established tools.

LLMs are fundamentally different from other writing tools because they attempt to construct meaning in a way that is not done by the author. A main purpose of writing is to convey meaning, so LLM writing defeats that purpose.

andy99 48 minutes ago||
Just send me the prompt if you’re going to write with AI. No point in trying to convince me it’s great, the marginal cost for me to re-run the prompt is zero, just send the prompt - it’s like unzipping a file before you send it to me, it doesn’t help, it just decreases information density.
auggierose 34 minutes ago|
I don't know, just generated a 15 page paper by discussing it intensely with the AI for about 2 weeks. By now, pretty much every sentence in that paper must be AI generated, but at the same time, every sentence now says exactly what I want it to say. You'd definitely not want the prompt.

"Just sent me the prompt" is also such a hive-mind thing to say these days. It seems you definitely don't need the AI to think for you, HN does it already for you.

andy99 23 minutes ago|||
Nothing personal, if someone told me they’d generated a 15 page paper based on a two week LLM discussion I wouldn’t want to read it at all. My prior is that it would be the result of some sycophantic echo chamber that the LLM had reinforced.
auggierose 20 minutes ago||
That's fine. This is a statement about yourself, not me.
pastel8739 21 minutes ago|||
If you’re working on it for 2 weeks, why not just write it yourself (perhaps chatting with an AI on the side to develop your thoughts)?
auggierose 17 minutes ago||
Because it is more efficient, of course. Same reason why I use Codex/Claude Code for programming, and not only the chat window.
wwweston 55 minutes ago||
> A person can type 3,000 words by hand and have no thought pass through their head beyond the need to finish before lunch.

This isn’t the common case. How many of the thoughts produced while working on the words have much novelty or high quality may be an open question, but it’s rare to type or handwrite 3000 words and not have any thoughts.

> Another can dictate an idea, argue with a language model for an hour, reject six drafts, rearrange the whole piece, rewrite half of it, and publish something they understand down to the final comma

Also probably not the common case. And so far my experience is that models make decent to good editors/critics, but average originators (though with remarkable breadth and sometimes outlier originations).

Planktonne 19 minutes ago||
This was a reasonable take several years ago, when we were just getting access to LLMs.

Now though, it undercuts itself, because if the world is filled with authors using AI to express their interesting thoughts, then how come--this post included--it's always the same regurgitation and bloviation?

We know by now--have had countless examples--that people using AI to produce text do not care for the quality of that text. It's a path-of-least-resistance tool, and that's what people use it for.

romellem 28 minutes ago||
Counterpoint: https://sophiebits.com/2026/06/25/there-are-no-lossless-tran...
zkmon 23 minutes ago|
To extend the argument, even if someone types every single word using their keyboard, they are not quite "writing". They are dictating each letter by pressing at different places on a keyboard. The computer does the writing of each letter using a predefined shape (font). And even someone is writing using a pen, they are only dictating the strokes by moving the pen in different directions, while the pen, ink and paper are bringing the letters into existence.
More comments...