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Posted by yan 11 hours ago

Superlogical(www.superlogical.com)
https://mitchellh.com/writing/superlogical
542 points | 336 commentspage 9
iririririr 10 hours ago|
> We will build a high-quality terminal multiplexer that remains excellent at that job, even as it grows to support the second and third parts of the plan.

why this feels the next step is data collection and Ads?

rvz 8 hours ago|
Would you pay for it to not have data collections and ads?
dominotw 10 hours ago||
i just have log.md that keeps a running log of things as i work though a project. thats all my claude code needs to navigate 'session' across systems.
klas_segeljakt 10 hours ago|
"Any sufficiently VC-funded AI startup will inevitably try to re-invent a log.md file" - Spongebob Squarepants
the_real_cher 8 hours ago||
Literally everything Mitchell does is top notch. Looking forward to seeing how this turns out!
brcmthrowaway 7 hours ago||
Can someone explain as pi as a harness vs Claude Code or OpenCode?

People keep saying "yeah, it's customizable!", but I can't be bothered doing that.

AIorNot 9 hours ago||
another IDE for AI harnesess?
ltbarcly3 5 hours ago||
The people here are a who's who of bad software. I expect horrible things. (if you haven't experienced the abomination of everything hashicorp made you should not downvote me here)
aaroninsf 9 hours ago||
https://xkcd.com/1406/
hobofan 10 hours ago||
I'm sorry to take it out on this specific announcement, as it just seems to be one of many "offenders", but why are the 15 investors listed on an announcement blog post of a semi-stealth startup?

With most of them being VC or high-count angel investors, they can combined push whatever product is being built here into 200+ companies independent of whether it is good or not. What happened to the good old way of figuring out product market fit first? Is that the only way a product can succeed nowadays, or why else would a ~billionair that could easily fund it himself pull in that many investors that early?

---

I'm excited to see what Superlogical will build, but the startup scene seems to grow more clique-y by the day.

01284a7e 10 hours ago||
"With most of them being VC or high-count angel investors, they can combined push whatever product is being built here into 200+ companies independent of whether it is good or not"

Ah, I see you have figured it out the thing that has always been the case.

hobofan 10 hours ago||
I don't doubt that, but that phenomenon seems to be reaching egregious levels.
dewey 10 hours ago||
You are commenting that on a website where this is part of the value proposition since the early days, so I wouldn't say that's a new phenomenon.
dust-jacket 10 hours ago|||
I think the generous take would be...

- it demonstrates they have funding (pre-empting "no-one will fund something weird like this")

- its transparent and open (pre-empting "which bastards are the ones who really own it?")

oooyay 10 hours ago|||
> why else would a ~billionaire that could easily fund it himself pull in that many investors that early?

Investors can be good for funding but they can also be good for education. Later, they're also very good for strategy.

> What happened to the good old way of figuring out product market fit first? Is that the only way a product can succeed nowadays

Generally it's very challenging. I have two products I'm building this way and you face a lot of up-hill climb where people with VC backing are getting the door opened for them. Of course, because of those same pressures to deliver and succeed, it's equally possible those same doors will eventually get closed on them.

I think Mitchell also lives in a bit of a bubble now. He went from friendly open source guy to very rich friendly open source guy. That's no knock on him, but I would consider viewing business from the perspective of someone who has been a CEO, CTO, and IC at the same company (his company) as his only job who became insanely wealthy as a result. I have a friend who has largely only worked in big tech, and successful startups, who tells me all the time level and salary don't matter to him. They don't matter to him because he found success early. Again, not a knock but sustained success will shape how you view the world and how you play the game.

tchalla 9 hours ago|||
> I'm excited to see what Superlogical will build, but the startup scene seems to grow more clique-y by the day.

Insert "It always was" meme

rglover 9 hours ago|||
> why else would a ~billionair that could easily fund it himself pull in that many investors that early?

Something something "never spend your own money if you can spend someone else's money." That plus the perception of having those specific investors gives the idea/business fast authority/prestige.

It's not the gangster move, but it's a move.

otterley 9 hours ago|||
> why else would a ~billionair that could easily fund it himself pull in that many investors that early

That was my question, too. Does Mitchell even need to take outside funding? I get why you would prefer to use others' poker chips instead of your own, especially if they're happy to give them to you, but usually funding comes with strings attached.

xyzsparetimexyz 9 hours ago|||
Of course they need VC money! How else are they gonna hire the worlds best vibe coders?
giancarlostoro 10 hours ago|||
It's really awkward when you consider projects like Bun, which were VC funded, and ultimately bought out by a large company, what would they have even done to pay back the VCs that funded them?
colesantiago 10 hours ago||
Ghostty and libghostty was product market fit.

Superlogical (allegedly) uses it for the multiplexer.

Mitchell Hashimoto is just the icing on the cake and he has a track record of building defining dev tools used by millions of devs.

So it makes sense why you see 15 angel investors.

More money / investment in the dev tool space is great for everyone!

hobofan 10 hours ago|||
I'm not doubting that Mitchell Hashimoto is capable of building great products with great product market fit. Quite the opposite, as the few strands of idolization that exist within me rank him as one of the best to ever do it in the dev tooling space.

I'm also not doubting that there would be tons of investors throwing themselves at him for a new venture like this.

But why, apart from forced market access would it be in his interest to take that money, given that he can nicely fund it for a few years with ~1% of his net worth if not for forced market access?

ksec 9 hours ago|||
I seriously doubt it is for the money.

It said they are funded, but it doesn't mean they lost control or have to be VC hyper growth. Apart from Notable Capital and Amplify Partners all others are individuals. There are lots of benefits having these group of company founders and CEO as investors. They are likely interested in the problem space as well.

Had it been hyper growth startup you would be looking at a16z or other bigger names.

jonas21 9 hours ago|||
1. Accountability - even very talented people can lose motivation or get distracted. Having investors to report to helps with this.

2. Recruiting - many people would be wary of working on a rich guy's pet project. Taking investment makes it more of a real company that has to deliver something and is not subject solely to the whims of one person.

beacon294 8 hours ago|||
yes, dev tooling investment has always been disappointing. Mainly due to stingy buyers.
_verandaguy 10 hours ago||
I really wish mitchellh wouldn't take funding from some of these people. Tobias Lutke in particular has chronically been on the wrong side of fundamental issues, and has most recently advocated for a pay-to-play version of democracy where wealth determines your ability to participate (and in particular your "stake" in the democracy).
Swizec 9 hours ago||
> Tobias Lutke /../ has most recently advocated for a pay-to-play version of democracy where wealth determines your ability to participate

He’s just looking at america post Citizens United and wishing he could ull the same shenans in Canada. It’s been working very well for the folks and orgs who can afford it

stephc_int13 10 hours ago|||
I also recoiled a bit when I say that Lutke was on the investors list.
otterley 9 hours ago|||
Does Mitchell even need to take outside funding?
bagxrvxpepzn 9 hours ago|||
> Tobias Lutke in particular has chronically been on the wrong side of fundamental issues

Just because someone has different ideas about what policies would produce better outcomes for society doesn't mean they are a malicious person.

Clearly there is a lot wrong with society and many suspect it's due to structural problems in how society is organized. Even if he's wrong, it's not surprising at all that a successful well-intentioned person who pays a lot in taxes who is otherwise not experienced in policy would have the opinion that the votes of people who pay more in taxes should have a greater weight.

There is no civilization if it's the norm to assume that someone is acting in bad faith if he has opinions different than yours. E.g. Wikipedia would have fallen apart https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Assume_good_faith

slowin 9 hours ago||
I'm sure the people who would have their right to vote stripped from them would consider that malicious, and they would be correct. That's not democracy.
bagxrvxpepzn 9 hours ago||
> I'm sure the people who would have their right to vote stripped from them would consider that malicious, and they would be correct.

I don't agree with him but you're incorrect here. To play devil's advocate, if his policy idea resulted in better outcomes for them, e.g. better material conditions, then they may end up preferring not having a right to vote and consider him a good person.

> That's not democracy.

Democracy isn't necessarily the same thing as direct democracy, or "everyone votes." The Ancient Greeks didn't practice democracy this way. In any case, democracy isn't a virtue in itself. If one system is democratic according to your standards but the vast majority of its citizens live in squalor while another system is not democratic according to your standards but the vast majority of its citizens live in prosperity, which system is better?

slowin 9 hours ago|||
I think most people will agree that empowering the edgelord Shopify CEO is not going to improve most people's outcomes. All you need to do is read his tweets to see that he should have less power (much less), not more.
bagxrvxpepzn 9 hours ago||
> I think most people will agree that empowering the edgelord Shopify CEO is not going to improve most people's outcomes.

This is another logical fallacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

> All you need to do is read his tweets to see that he should have less power (much less), not more

I'd like you to make a real argument. What specific tweet of his implies he should have less power and why?

slowin 9 hours ago||
It's not a logical fallacy. You made the unsubstantiated claim that people would want their right to vote stripped from them. I do not think people want guys like this in power: https://xcancel.com/tobi/status/2081155797640171641
bagxrvxpepzn 9 hours ago||
> You made the unsubstantiated claim that people would want their right to vote stripped from them.

That wasn't a claim, it was a hypothetical.

> I do not think people want guys like this in power: https://xcancel.com/tobi/status/2081155797640171641

What is it specifically about this tweet that means him being in power would have bad outcomes?

slowin 9 hours ago||
I'd start with some German guy calling native Canadians who are actively civically engaged "useful idiots" and his suggestion that the unemployed and retried shouldn't have a voice in their community.
bagxrvxpepzn 8 hours ago||
> his suggestion that the unemployed and retried shouldn't have a voice in their community.

I don't see him making that suggestion. It's pithy so it's hard to really pin down a meaning to the tweet but I think he's saying that these town sessions aren't a meaningful expression of democracy because only a specific section of society is in attendance and one that may not understand key issues relevant to working or young people.

slowin 8 hours ago||
Calling people "useful idiots" is pithy?
bagxrvxpepzn 8 hours ago||
In this context, I would call it pithy sure. It's concise and direct. He's not explaining further.

He clearly isn't calling the other categories he listed (the " Retired, Unemployed, Unemployable") useful idiots, that's why he listed "useful idiots" separately. I don't know to whom he is referring as useful idiots but I don't think it's immoral in itself to use the term "useful idiot."

_verandaguy 9 hours ago|||
Historical precedent (both recent and not) shows that concentrating wealth and then giving those wealthy few an inordinate amount of political power does not end well for those disenfranchised by this system.

It is not reasonable to give the benefit of the doubt on the basis of Lutke and his ilk maybe being benevolent dictators if given largely unfettered access to the levers of power.

bagxrvxpepzn 8 hours ago||
> Historical precedent (both recent and not) shows that concentrating wealth and then giving those wealthy few an inordinate amount of political power does not end well for those disenfranchised by this system.

Historical precedent isn't a rational basis for argument. You don't make stock picks based on precedent. You need to actually examine the causes that result in outcomes to evaluate whether the same outcome would happen again. That said, I have seen good arguments for why weighting votes based on tax contribution would have bad outcomes so I don't agree with him.

> It is not reasonable to give the benefit of the doubt on the basis of Lutke and his ilk maybe being benevolent dictators if given largely unfettered access to the levers of power.

I have no reason to assume Lutke is a bad actor but maybe you know something I don't. Has he done anything to harm anybody or any group of people? Him being rich doesn't make him automatically a bad or suspicious person. There are many rich people who do good things with their wealth and free time.

_verandaguy 6 hours ago||
It's also a false equivalence fallacy to compare people to stocks. Historical precedent is a strong predictor of human behaviour.

The wealthy have been using their wealth to consolidate power for essentially as long as the concept of material wealth has existed, and the exceptions to this are far outweighed by the cases which conform to the rule.

tills13 10 hours ago|||
It's really unfortunate that the same traits that make you great at building a business (within capitalism) also often make you have psychopathic tendencies.
throwaway-blaze 9 hours ago|||
Easy to say this when the original commenter incorrectly described Tobias' comments. He suggested that those who pay more in taxes should have a greater say in how the government is spending the money. This is not a crazy idea on its face; you could say that taken to the limit it would not be a good system to live in (the highest taxpayer dictating what gov't does).

But it does make sense that those who are footing the bill for everything might be consulted a little on the plans to spend.

tills13 7 hours ago||
reading "those who pay more in taxes should have a greater say in how the government is spending the money" and NOT taking that to mean what the OP is suggesting it to mean is naive. Everyone knows what Tobias meant when he said that.
vrganj 9 hours ago|||
Kind of says something about the system we've chosen to run our societies on, huh?
an0malous 9 hours ago||
Now we’re ruled by an oligarchy of psychopaths and everyone’s wondering how this happened
draw_down 10 hours ago|||
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fourseventy 9 hours ago||
People are only allowed to take funding from investors whose politics align with yours?
antonyt 9 hours ago|||
"I think this guy is dumb and wrong. Oh no, this dumb wrong guy is going to have outsized influence on a project I'm interested in. Oh no, this dumb wrong guy may profit from a project I'm interested in. Oh no, this dumb wrong guy is using his wealth to do dumb wrong things."

This is a normal and reasonable thought process.

an0malous 9 hours ago|||
They stated their preference, not that there should be a rule to enforce their preference.
PersonalJarvis 9 hours ago|
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