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Posted by speckx 2 days ago

I'm switching my phone from Android to Linux(runarcn.no)
474 points | 517 commentspage 2
felooboolooomba 2 days ago|
Not to mention that your android/ios device is still shipping a bunch of bluetooth tokens for "track and trace" system. Cryptographically signed to you.

https://covid19.apple.com/contacttracing

pdabbadabba 2 days ago||
> Cryptographically signed to you.

That's a bit of an oversimplification that makes this sound more concerning than it is. Not that it's 100% un-concerning, but I suggest that anyone concerned about this read the linked docs. It really was designed to be quite privacy preserving, though it's obviously a difficult challenge in this context.

felooboolooomba 1 day ago|||
> Not that it's 100% un-concerning

The face alone that if you spend 10 minutes within someone's proximity will get flagged is 100% concerning. Of course they keys will only be handed to government health officials, but we all know what that means.

hamhock666 2 days ago|||
Isn’t this GPS data to see where Covid has spread? Even if your name is anonymous, a GPS point that every day goes to your work and then your home is surely you?
wolletd 2 days ago|||
Most probably, yes. But how would you know who I am and where I live? And if you do know both of those things, are there other ways of figuring out my routines? Yes, there are.

Keeping the name out of that data does a lot for privacy. With a name in there, you could use the data to find my name and figure out my address. Without the name in there, you don't know which point I even am without knowing some of my locations from another source.

shakna 2 days ago||
Correlating data with another source is half of what data brokers do, so I wouldn't really say that is any level of privacy protection.
neobrain 1 day ago|||
Where are you getting GPS from? Grandparent commenter talked about bluetooth beacons and parent suggested reading the docs.

The contact tracing APIs very deliberately avoided GPS for exactly the reason you mention.

conradev 2 days ago|||
It is encrypted ciphertext rotated every 10m in lockstep with your Bluetooth identifier.

You will need to turn off your Bluetooth if you want to stop advertising a rotating random number.

The only difference with the contact tracing is that a key, on the device, can correlate the ciphertext. I have it off because the utility was never demonstrated.

striking 2 days ago||
Exposure Notifications is no longer available in Android as of like 2023. https://developers.google.com/android/exposure-notifications
po1nt 2 days ago||
Windows Phone was a great idea and worked so well. But it was killed by the fact that people didn't want to maintain apps for 3 platforms. Nowadays when most of the things runs on web/electron anyway, isn't this the time to rediscover that idea?

Make something novel? RTOS like response like blackberry, secure, fully opensource and such? With the era of LLM accelerated developement (don't crucify me), this wouldn't be such unreachable goal.

We would have to sacrifice bank apps but imho still worth it.

uncletammy 2 days ago||
We should be eagerly sacrificing bank apps anyway. If your bank treats you with hostility, time to get a new bank.
skeptic_ai 2 days ago|||
With that thinking you are debanked. No bank is not hostile.
po1nt 2 days ago|||
Unfortunately banks act on regulations. I'd much rather suggest avoiding banks altogether but that's discussion for later.
frollogaston 1 day ago||
Is there a regulation preventing them from doing 2FA other ways in some countries? Chase bank in the US supports passkeys and SMS, you don't need the app. My wife doesn't even have a compatible phone.
hithre 2 days ago|||
Thanksfully it is not all web. Though indeed there is no lack of native multiplaform solutions.

But app is not the hardest challenge compared to supporting all the hardware, camera, screens and the many core protocols

ColdStream 2 days ago|||
These are problems the PC solved but we lost with mobile. Standard processors, BIOS, interfaces and general API's for use so it made systems kind of generic. Looks like those who made these things didn't want to repeat that mistake again.

Unfortunately, I suspect things like RiscV are just going to accelerate this as it means anyone can make any spec they want so long as the application code compiles to it.

frollogaston 1 day ago||
Smartphones are much tighter and more specialized. It's not like they decided against standardization for lock-in reasons, cause even within a single manufacturer there will be so many differences.
po1nt 2 days ago||||
If the push is large enough, manufacturers will develop their own drivers. If not, the implementation should be much easier nowadays.
frollogaston 1 day ago|||
Web is the only serious open standard we've got for apps
DANmode 2 days ago||
Surface Duo 2 tried to rediscover it.

Next one will probably take a while, but be a relative hit.

almindor 2 days ago||
I've been using Sailfish OS since the first Jolla phone came out in EU and Canada both. It has some hurdles but if you pay for the android subsystem it works fine. There are a lot of great native apps and you get the full linux experience.
jll29 1 day ago|
The Jolla 2 is said to be "sold out".

Apparently, they produce the phones in batches, not sure when the next one is due?

nbernard 1 day ago||
Just received mine. Sure, the interface is far, far slicker than what is available on the Librem 5, but there are already hints of "you are not really the owner of the device" (for instance default "safety" contacts in the contact app that you cannot delete, the inability to easily use "reverse tethering" (getting Internet by USB through a computer) and so on) that will make me keep the Librem 5, with all its own issues, as my daily driver for the foreseeable future.

(And the Jolla's "hardware privacy switch" feels like a bad joke: yes, the switch is hardware. What it does (if anything) is fully handled in software.)

poetaster 20 hours ago||
The safety contacts issue is legislated in Europe. Removing them is breaking the law, I believe. Can be done if you really want to hack.
dools 2 days ago||
Speaking of Linux on mobile, I have about 300 of these things for sale with some associated hardware and software if anyone is interested (in Australia but can ship obviously) https://www.openstick.de/
ggm 2 days ago||
Worthy of a top level post be the OP you need to be!
inigyou 1 day ago|||
This is an LLM-generated webslop.
dools 1 day ago||
What is, that website? It’s pretty thorough. It’s not my website but the information is all accurate.
inigyou 1 day ago||
Have you verified all of the website contents?
dools 1 day ago||
Well I have spent a LOT of time working with these devices, and I took a look through the website, and I didn’t see anything that looked wrong.

But not exhaustively no, because why would I? it’s just the first google result for ”openstick”.

It’s a pretty cool project with a cult following. If you’re interested you could spend years working with the same devices and then verify the information yourself.

josephg 2 days ago||
It’d be cool to see pictures of the device!
dools 2 days ago||
Here you go https://hackaday.com/2022/08/03/hackable-20-modem-combines-l...
tombert 2 days ago||
I have thought about buying one of the Pinephone things, because I want to actually own the computer in my pocket, but I have always hesitated because the hardware is always kind of ancient for these things. The Pinephone doesn’t even have 5G, so I am not even sure that my phone service will let me activate it now.

What I would like is to take my existing iPhone 13 Pro and install a real Linux on it so I could guarantee decent hardware. You know, like we could do with pretty much any computer before smartphones.

TacticalCoder 2 days ago||
> You know, like we could do with pretty much any computer before smartphones.

I don't remember all the details but I had a Mac G3 around the same time I started using Linux: I don't remember the story about installing Linux no Mac hardware as being a particularly easy one.

Now I'm not saying that years after the fact, Linux wouldn't run fine on Intel Macs. But if I recall correctly it always has been a bit of a bumpy road.

tombert 2 days ago||
I didn't have a Mac in that era, but I did have a Macbook Air from 2014 and I ran Ubuntu and NixOS on it just fine, even at the time. I had to use rEFInd but it wasn't terribly hard.

On modern Macs, it's pretty easy to install Linux with Avahi.

To be clear, I don't necessarily need it to be easy to put another OS on there. I just want it to be possible. As far as I'm aware, there's no way (officially or unofficially) to install another OS on any recent iPhones. Someone might eventually figure out how to break the bootloader on the iPhone 13, but I personally think it should be something that the owner of the phone is allowed to opt into.

poetaster 20 hours ago|||
I'm running SailfishOs on Gigasets assembled in Germany and they have G5. It's a port and I don't have android support at all. I maintain a number if apps and it feels like ownership. Also have a spare Jolla with droid stuff, but use that max once a week.
snazz 2 days ago|||
5G is probably not a requirement for your phone service (although I can’t say for sure). The critical bit on networks in the U.S. and many other countries without 2G or 3G is VoLTE for phone calls and texts, which it does support. Some carriers have device whitelists that are only loosely related to technical features, though.
tombert 2 days ago||
Even still, it's 2026, I don't really think "has 5G" is considered a luxury feature on a smartphone.

I'm sure that the Pine folks have very good reasons for not having 5G support, but those reasons don't really matter to the end user.

fsflover 1 day ago||
Librem 5 has an experimental support of a 5G modem: https://forums.puri.sm/t/librem5-5g-is-here-modem-sim8202g-t...
friendlypenguin 2 days ago||
I really want to leave the Google and Apple Ecosystems, but I still need "these" Banking Apps. Some Banks don't even offer a Web based experience anymore.
NegativeLatency 2 days ago||
Get a new bank, make sure your old one knows why you left. Try a local credit union.
Eric_WVGG 2 days ago||
Although I’m 100% in favor of credit unions over megabanks, I would not count on most having remotely decent web or app experiences.
igor47 2 days ago||
I tried repeatedly with several credit unions, with poor results. The final straw was the patelco hack that made the entire bank unavailable for over a week. In the aftermath they implanted crazy security measures where talking to a rep required 6 layers of increasingly invasive authentication. But... The hack was of the bank infrastructure. It had nothing to do with individualized fraud, all accounts were affected --it was just security theater. I went back to a major bank after that.
Eric_WVGG 1 day ago||
FWIW I use USAA, it’s a quasi-credit-union, and they’ve been great. But they’re also an outlier.
wolletd 2 days ago|||
While Sparkasse and Volksbank in Germany aren't the most ideal banks cost- and interest-wise, they do still offer transaction authentication via debit card, without the need for any smartphone.
prmoustache 2 days ago|||
But do you need "these" banking apps with you 24/7?

An old smartphone or tablet can do that job and stay in a drawer at home 99% of the time.

skeptic_ai 2 days ago||
Yes. I need to pay someone. Get notified when my credit card is used. If any important banking communication happened. What do I do with a phone without: banking, uber, messenger like app, ? Same as holding a piece of a rock. Useless.
prmoustache 1 day ago||
How did we do it before phones? Instant online payment is nice but rarely a requirement. Most times we split a bill with friends in a restaurant we agree on paying someone but although we technically could we don't all grab our phone at the exact moment, preferring enjoying the real social conversations we have. We tend to pay them later, and that later is more often than not at home and when I do a swift transfer to someone I'd rather have my complete laptop screen anyway to verify the banking data.

As for Uber and messaging, you are moving the goalpost.

uber still worked from the webpage last time I checked.

There are messaging apps available on linux.

amelius 2 days ago||
Why doesn't the EU force these banks to support all platforms including web?

I mean, if they can force Microsoft to support other browsers than IE6, then why can't they force banks?

OJFord 2 days ago|||
I expect everyone who can conceive of something other than Android or iOS* on a phone is on HN, and not a bureaucrat in Brussels.

*(or BB, webOS, Windows Phone 7 Phone OS Phone Microsoft, Symbian, etc. if old enough)

izacus 2 days ago|||
Why not have US Federal Government enforce this instead? It's way more impactful for most HN users.

Why wait for Brussels beaurocrats we all have this much and not have the most important tech country in the world make this law?

OJFord 2 days ago||
..sure? I don't personally care what either enforces, since I'm in neither jurisdiction. I wouldn't have thought the US is any more (or even as) likely to personally, but sure. I said Brussels because comment I replied to said EU.
BirAdam 2 days ago|||
PalmOS and webOS were the best.
megous 2 days ago||||
EU botched even API requirements on banks. We could have had open API to every EU bank, but nope, it must have been some bullshit for big companies to slurp data en-masse, instead of API for end users to use their data privately and comfortably from whatever app they wanted, incl. their own.

Open/individually accessible APIs would have to have be a movement, like the one with open formats for interacting with eGov.

thyristan 2 days ago||
We even had open APIs for every bank in Germany, in the form of HBCI and FinTS. With fancy things like optional RSA smartcard auth. The EU killed it all in the name of "omg, security!" (a total bullshit argument if you've ever looked at the specs), now with the new PSD2 the only ones getting proper API access are lots of shady payment providers, credit databases, data brokers and the like...
Blazara 2 days ago||||
If you're an EU citizen, contact your MEP and ask for it.
Eric_WVGG 2 days ago||||
Not sure why this is getting downvoted (or why IE6 is being brought up in 2026). But yes, banks are super-highly regulated and for good reason. They’re subject to all sorts of accessibility laws, there’s loads of precedent here.
skeptic_ai 2 days ago|||
So everyone needs to carry a tracking device.
toastal 2 days ago||
I switched to Sailfish OS. A lot of rough edges, but it can can be workable—tho largely due to Sailfish having an Android layer to run those apps. It’s getting better OS-wise, but the Sony devices that you can get access to internationally are much lower priority on their list. On top, if you try to pay, the lock you to Western countries… & I have no idea why.
pooploop64 2 days ago||
I would love to do this. It's shocking how little Android offers for the hardware it uses. Recently I was thinking if I could install Windows 98 on my phone, even that would be better. At least I could have more than one app open without it burning all my work just because I dared to check info on a web page while filling a form.
ColdStream 2 days ago||
Oh yes, the endless joy of "We have sent a one time code to your email." Yes, but if I switch to my email then I will lose my browser session and thus the code is useless. So you have to get out a laptop to open your email just so that you have 2FA on your phone.
timbit42 1 day ago|||
I used to have this problem before I upgraded to a phone with more RAM so more apps can be open at the same time.
inigyou 1 day ago||||
And "please confirm this payment in your bank app". That one's even worse because the payment goes through while the site forgot what you were paying for. If you're lucky it gets refunded.
DANmode 2 days ago||||
Tap the dots menu, and select “Open in Chromium” once the WebView loads.
ludkiller 2 days ago|||
Yea, that is so annoying, ._.
spaqin 2 days ago||
My LineageOS setup used to do that; until I found that someone found a script that would adjust the memory allocation and OOM killer to more sensible values. I just have that run on boot. No side effects.

Unfortunately, that's not an option for most people, the only choice is to complain - but not like there's any other option on the market that behaves better. Or there's some other drawback, or different UI to learn...

Ey7NFZ3P0nzAe 2 days ago||
Can you share a link to said script please?
spaqin 2 days ago||
Sure; it was one of many posts in xda for a cheapo mid-level Chinese device. I haven't gone through it too deeply to understand and optimize further, works fine as-is to me.

https://xdaforums.com/t/rom-16-official-lineageos-23-for-mi-...

Ey7NFZ3P0nzAe 19 hours ago||
Looks like it's helping. Tha ks a lot!
skeledrew 2 days ago||

  > While the AOSP isn't exactly dead (yet), it kind of feels like it's just a question of time.
The writing's been in the wall since the renamed the Android Market to Google Play Store. Frog's been boiling all this time, and every update my croaks grow weaker.
utopiah 2 days ago|
> If I have an issue or something I want to tinker with I can just ssh over from my PC either wirelessly or via USB.

FWIW one can also do that on stock Android or its GrapheneOS variant pretty conveniently, including storage access, am, boot background processes, etc. It is not as complete as being root on Linux proper but still.

AshamedCaptain 2 days ago|
This is often said but if you want to "diagnose" something then the terribly limited Android shell is about the last place you want to be, and a sandboxed one on top of it is worse ....
imkac 2 days ago||
Why debug your daily driven phone? You can use Cuttlefish or anything else.
AshamedCaptain 1 day ago||
I think you forgot what the "H" in "HN" means.
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