Top
Best
New

Posted by aemerson_ 1 day ago

Show HN: I spent 2 years designing a mechanical Magic Keyboard(electronicmaterialsoffice.com)
Hi HN, today I’m revealing Altar II, an ultra-low profile (4.75mm) mechanical keyboard designed to replace your Magic Keyboard. It’s the keyboard I wish Apple made.

Altar II has fully mechanical switches, plus a magnetically detachable dial, haptic feedback, a red backlight, and a native macOS companion app.

I’m a heavy Mac user and I feel that Apple hasn’t given its keyboards the attention they deserve, in terms of hardware, software, and features, so I set out to try and change that.

It was a massive undertaking and it has taken almost 2 years to get to this stage. One of the main obstacles was fitting a reasonably sized battery into the chassis, and aggressive power profiling without messing with the user experience. Another issue was we couldn’t fit any components on the underside of the PCB because there was literally no space to do so (and there are a lot of components).

Around 4 years ago I posted my first keyboard to HN (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32507172). Its response blew me away and ultimately led to me quitting my job and making and selling keyboards full time. I’ve taken some of the feedback from that original post and incorporated it into Altar II (e.g. the detachable dial).

I’ll be around to answer any questions. Please let me know what you think, I’d love to get some feedback.

291 points | 237 comments
ary 1 day ago|
To everyone who is about to pile on regarding the lack of a fingerprint sensor: you know it's not possible, we all know it's not possible, the creator of this project knows it's not possible.

What are you adding to the conversation when you complain about it? So it's a dealbreaker for you, don't buy it.

To @aemerson_: Congratulations on taking a risk. On first look this is great work. The attention to detail on both the keyboard and the website is really impressive.

xp84 1 day ago||
Not defending anyone using Touch ID as a reason to complain about this -- I think it looks like a great keyboard -- but just yesterday I saw this super cool alternative to the hilarious "buy the world's most expensive mediocre membrane keyboard to tear out a tiny part" idea: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tB3lk-PNA6I

As near as I can understand it, macOS supports a smart card reader (and apparently will defer to its sign-off for authentication duties when it's present and configured, and Touch ID isn't), so if you emulate a smart card reader you can make your own fingerprint sensor and have it say "I'm a smart card" and sign challenges like a smart card does.

The creator is very up front that this isn't equivalently secure for preserving state secrets, as if you carefully tear this device apart you can just short the pins that the sensor part connects when it's happy with the fingerprint. On the other hand, it is hilarious that anyone who isn't a person of interest for the CIA, Mossad, MI6, or FSB would think they're important enough for someone to go to the trouble of using that method to unlock their secrets. Anyone else would just club you over the head or slip you a mickey, and stick your unconscious finger on your fingerprint sensor.

aemerson_ 1 day ago|||
Thank you, it's been a real labour of love!

People are raising a good point RE Touch ID. It is possible to add a fingerprint sensor. But that fingerprint sensor will never be able to do the things that Touch ID is most useful for: i.e. use Apple Pay. It would be incredibly confusing to have a fingerprint sensor that was usable for some things and not for others. Therefore the better experience today is to not include a fingerprint sensor at all, imo.

philipportner 1 day ago||
Congrats on the great job with the Altar II. If I didn't already have too many keyboards, I'd hop on the Kickstarter! FWIW, I fully agree with your opinion on including a `half working` fingerprint sensor.
philistine 1 day ago|||
Get an Apple Watch. It massively cuts the amount of required unlocks.
xp84 1 day ago|||
Unfortunately, I would place this in the 'Sometimes but don't count on it' half of the "Things Apple Watch has Proven Itself Reliable For" list.

(The only non-timekeeping items on the 'Always works perfectly' part of the list are Apple Pay and the little button that dings your phone when you've misplaced it.)

ValentineC 1 day ago|||
I have an Apple Watch, but kept that feature off because I didn't want the possibility of someone else being able to fiddle with my MacBook when I'm near enough for the watch unlock to trigger.
gtsteve 1 day ago|||
A fingerprint sensor isn't possible, appreciated, but what about a U2F activation button? It could even just be a wireless pass-through for USB to allow your yubikey to work for example (I'm certain this can be done on Linux but unsure about other oses)
satvikpendem 1 day ago|||
https://github.com/zimengxiong/tinytouch spoofs as a card reader but won't work with Apple Pay and the like.
locknitpicker 1 day ago|||
> It could even just be a wireless pass-through for USB to allow your yubikey to work for example

Everyone would be better served with a generic USB hub in the keyboard, not shipping a security key with the keyboard.

crumpled 1 day ago||
My favorite keyboard for years was the Dell SK-8135. It had media buttons without messing with your function keys, a volume knob, and two USB ports!

For a long time I would argue (as an IT support person who would have to support your wireless keyboard problems) that having a wireless keyboard was wasteful and unnecessary if you never used it more than 3 feet from your computer anyway.

throw10920 1 day ago|||
> To everyone who is about to pile on regarding the lack of a fingerprint sensor

This is a cheap way to try to subvert legitimate criticism by trying to shame others into not voicing their criticisms, and is exactly the opposite of what HN is intended for.

Andrew6rant 1 day ago|||
Fingerprint sensor is technically possible: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=120964.0

CC @gtsteve

naikrovek 1 day ago||
fingerprint sensor is easily done. Touch ID-compatible fingerprint sensor from someone other than Apple is not possible as I understand it.
Andrew6rant 1 day ago|||
I just linked you a post with a Touch ID-compatible mechanical keycap.

Reverse-engineered from the Apple Magic Keyboard and requires a donor board, though

asdff 1 day ago|||
You could do all that and maybe after many hours it might work, or you could also solve this in 5 minutes by just plug in the magic keyboard to the computer, stick it in a box with a cut out for the touchid sensor, and just stick your mechanical keyboard on top of the box.
naikrovek 1 day ago|||
“requires a donor [Apple Magic] keyboard” is not the same as a third party making a Touch ID-compatible sensor. That’s Apple making a Touch ID-compatible sensor and a third party taking it out and putting it in another keyboard.

This does not qualify as a third party Touch ID compatible keyboard.

notpushkin 1 day ago||
Yeah, but it’s a third party mechanical keyboard with a Touch ID sensor.

I suppose if one came across a pile of old / broken Magic keyboards, they could extract a bunch of Touch ID sensors and sell those to a keyboard manufacturer (or in their own keyboard). This does not scale, obviously, but including it as an option could work.

doggonemouse 1 day ago|||
yeah there was a snazzy labs ep about this I believe
tencentshill 1 day ago|||
The thing about hardware startups is you know they're not in it for the money.
ary 1 day ago||
Since I can't edit this comment: obviously I mean a Touch-ID sensor.
swingboy 1 day ago||
Great looking keyboard but why are the numbers on the number keys so large? They stick out like a sore thumb.
mft_ 1 day ago||
It reminds me a little of the large number keys (directly underneath the screen) on the original OP-1:

https://teenage.engineering/products/op-1/original

LoganDark 1 day ago|||
Agreed, I love a lot of the design but the unnecessary "quirkiness" in aspects like this are a bit of a turn-off.
StilesCrisis 1 day ago||
Same. Feels like the project takes plenty of risks in other ways and should have played it safe with aesthetic design.
d3Xt3r 1 day ago||
Agreed, the legends a huge turn-off. Would've bought this keyboard if it weren't for that.

Oh and the dial sticks out a bit too much too, would've preferred if it were a flat dial that sat flush with the rest of the keys.

crote 1 day ago||
It supports multiple dials, including some flatter ones. It even lets you 3D print your own dial.
rckclmbr 1 day ago||
Love the keyboard, looks solid. Out of curiosity, why did you make the numbers so big? It looks like an intentional design choice and I don’t know if I like it, but I’m wondering if there’s reasoning behind it that could change my mind
charlesrice 1 day ago|
Yeah it seems like if they wanted to make it appeal to Apple people they would make it more consistent and subtle. It's all so clean and then the numbers look like they came off a special calculator for people with failing eyesight.
runjake 1 day ago||
LOVE the industrial design. HATE the font, especially on the number keys. But, great job overall!
waffletower 1 day ago||
I actually like the number font, the presence, but the loss of visibility for the shifted symbols is a huge loss. I know where the numbers are -- I admittedly need more reminding for the symbols as I never explicitly practiced them. The muscle memory for them isn't quite as strong and in low light I need to see them.
canada_dry 1 day ago||
> symbols need to be lit

100% this.

One of my absolute favorite keyboard designs: G915 TKL Lightspeed got relegated to the donation pile because the symbols were NOT backlit. Such a dumb design choice to save a few cents IMHO.

copperx 1 day ago||
The keyboard seems to be missing important symbols, such as - and =, so it's likely not the final design.
canada_dry 1 day ago|||
Because it's backlit I'm guessing changing the eclectic number row design isn't an option that can be easily changed (for this version anyway).
crote 1 day ago||
The usual way of doing backlight is by having the LED underneath the switch and letting the switch transmit the light upwards. Many switches have special cutout positions for this, so the lighting for all the square keys is identical.

The only issue is that the keycap itself needs to be partially translucent and partially opaque, so rather than laser-etching or printing a legend they need to be "double-shot"[0], which means a two-phase injection molding process. This makes altering of the keycaps quite expensive as you need a new set of molds - which is especially bad if you were using one mold to produce an entire set of keycaps at once.

It's definitely doable to ship it with two different number rows, but it's the kind of thing you really want to know at the very start.

[0]: https://deskthority.net/wiki/Double-shot_moulding

throwaway89201 1 day ago|||
Those characters are present. The design of the number row is just so 'out there' that you missed them.
xingped 1 day ago||
Love the design and have also wanted a super low profile mechanical keyboard like this! I have one question though - what is the travel or activation distance of the keys?

The one thing I actually like about the magic keyboard or Microsoft's designer keyboard is that the "click" is immediate and the entirety travel distance of the key is the activation bump. I dislike any amount of the "extra" travel distance (I'm not sure if I'm using the right words/description, but I hope you get what I mean) of regular mechanical switches and is the main thing that turns me off from them.

Oh also, is it possible to get a Windows version or switch the keys around to accommodate Windows as well?

aemerson_ 1 day ago||
The travel distance on the Altar II switches is 1.8mm, so about 0.8mm more than on a MacBook keyboard. Similar to those keyboards, there is very little pre-travel on Altar II keys.

With regard to Windows keys that is a possibility. We shipped our previous keyboard, Altar I, with both Mac and Windows markings on the keys.

xingped 1 day ago||
It looks like the travel distance on the Microsoft Designer Keyboard is 1.35mm, so not far off.

How long are preorders/is the preorder discount available? I may seriously consider this.

aemerson_ 1 day ago||
Reservations are open until the Kickstarter launches on November 10th 2026.
glitchc 1 day ago||
What you are referring to is called the pre-travel distance. There are mechanical key options with very short pre-travel, such as the Cherry MX and Kailh Silver switches. They're mainly used for gaming.

https://keychron.ca/blogs/news/kailh-mechanical-switch-guide

mistersquid 1 day ago||
The promo website is something to behold and by itself is sufficient reason to chuck a buck at the possibility of Altar II coming into existence.

Thank you, good luck, and looking forward!

aemerson_ 1 day ago||
Thank you so much! A genuinely silly amount of time went into the website.

If you'll indulge me for a moment, because I never get to talk about this stuff: the corner radii of the cards on the site are actually "squircles" rather than perfect rounded corners. To me this is much more pleasing to the eye. The squircles are achieved by creating a PNG mask which is then 9-sliced and expanded to mask off the edge of the cards. Another mask is used for the stroke and laid on top of the first mask, to give the gradient border effect.

allenc 1 day ago|||
That is a silly amount of detail that in many ways is what Apple design is known for.
internetter 1 day ago|||
also see https://caniuse.com/?search=squircle (though no gradient border)
dmhmr 1 day ago||
It looks nice on mobile but I initially viewed it on desktop and found it unpleasant to use.
ifjeicjwidj 1 day ago||
This is absolutely fantastic, but those gigantic numbers are just bizarre and not at all good to look at. They feel completely out of place there, like you enlarged them by mistake. Not good.
allenc 1 day ago||
I've built about 10 mechanical keyboards so far, including a bunch of split ergo ones and low profile variants too. From that, I know the layout matters a lot, as well as the switches themselves; the programability and other features to me are nice but ultimately can be worked around.

I'm curious about the switches you're using. On the tech specs it says: "Dual steel arm scissor switch w/ retention spring, 40gf actuation force"

Are they custom switches then? If so, are they most similar to current Magic Keyboard switch feel, or something Choc or MX low profile, or their own thing altogether?

aemerson_ 1 day ago||
The switches feel like a M-Series MacBook with a decent amount more travel and more "snappy", tactile feeling. They feel quite different to, for example, Choc switches (which we used on our previous keyboard).
allenc 1 day ago||
That's really interesting. Hmm... it's too bad that there's no easy way to try out the keyboard and its unique switches before committing. But it's intriguing nonetheless.

Can you share how long you're looking to run the preorder/early bird special?

crote 1 day ago||
They are almost certainly the Cherry MX Ultra Low Profile[0], or else an almost 1:1 clone of them. Identical design, identical height and actuation distance. The actuation force is a bit off, but those numbers are more of a suggestion anyways.

[0]: https://www.cherry.de/en-us/product/mx-ulp-tactile

tomburgs 19 hours ago||
It looks super nice. I really like the name and the design, but as others have said the numbers seem to be a bit of a turn off. It really seems to throw off the visual balance and almost seems like there's a medical reason for it, like it's for people struggling with dyscalculia or something.

Another small thing is that I would love if it was possible to swap the "caps" key for a different labeled one (or unlabeled), since it appears that there already is a caps key on the right-hand side anyways. I personally always bind control key to the caps key (stems from vim/hhkb) and it'd be nice if it was able to configure the keyboard to reflect that.

ethersteeds 1 day ago|
This looks beautiful. While obviously a Mac keyboard, to what extent is it compatible with Linux?

Will there be documentation of its features beyond a standard Bluetooth HID, such that users could potentially develop software that utilizes the speaker and haptic feedback mechanisms?

aemerson_ 1 day ago|
It is fully compatible with Linux with respect to typing, volume control and so on.

The firmware source code will be published publicly on Github in the future, as our other keyboard (Altar I) is: https://github.com/electronicmaterialsoffice/firmware-altar-.... Anyone is welcome to play around with it.

More comments...