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Posted by willcarkner 5 hours ago

Launch HN: ProvenMetal (YC S26) delivers circuit boards in days instead of weeks(provenmetal.com)
Hey HN, we’re Will & Johnny from ProvenMetal (https://provenmetal.com). You send us design files or specs and we give you assembled boards domestically in days.

The US produced 30% of PCBs globally in 2000, now they produce 4%. Chinese manufacturers have completely dominated this space at 55% of global production.

Now, the need for a domestic PCB supply chain is higher than ever before, yet the infrastructure has been dissolving over the last 2 decades. What is left is mostly small family run manufacturers (CMs) that have been operating in largely the same, labor intensive way since the early 2000’s.

When you place an order through a CM it typically takes several days to receive a quote and complete design for manufacture review, and then you have to source all of the components (the hardest part) and bare boards yourself, then wait anywhere from a few days to several weeks for the assembly and testing of those boards.

We started off assembling circuit boards out of a garage with prosumer grade equipment (NeoDen YY1, Glenbrook X-ray, solder paste stencils, and manual rework stations). We believed that by owning the manufacturing process, we could turn all the front of house automations inwards. But here’s the thing… manufacturing circuit boards with prosumer grade equipment out of a garage takes a huge amount of time. Suddenly we were spending 90% of our time assembling circuit boards instead of growing the business. We were completely capacity constrained, with fancy software automations that are not the binding constraint at low volumes.

Then we got our heads out of the weeds, took a step back, and realized that we were trying to solve the wrong bottlenecks.

These manufacturers are good at manufacturing and terrible at the front of house (quoting, DFM review, and part procurement). When you look at the full process, you realize that assembly is not the bottleneck. So we stopped trying to solve the problem that we can’t solve at this stage.

We measured the bottlenecks and nailed down the ones that we are best positioned to solve right now.

When a customer wants a domestically manufactured circuit board, it is not a straight forward process. We are making that process easy through front of house automation. A customer gives us their design files, and we automatically procure components, and co-ordinate bare board fabs and assembly houses to get quotes, design review, and manufacturing completed in a very tight loop.

How we solve part procurement (you can’t assemble boards with no parts!): When a user places an order with us, our system automatically sources their bill of materials across US and overseas distributors. However, when we work with customers during the design process, our plug-ins interact with KiCAD and Altium, sending the BOM to our ordering platform, which allows us to automatically procure components before layout is finalized.

KiCAD plugin: (https://github.com/proven-metal/provenmetal-kicad)

Altium plugin: (https://github.com/proven-metal/provenmetal-altium)

This enables us to order long lead time parts in advance, suggest alternatives if parts are out of stock, and solve the biggest bottleneck in the process. We store parts in our hq in SF, and then kit the boards and route them through our network. We also do long term storage of parts for long lead time items.

How we solve endless emails: Every manufacturer wants the same information in a different shape. There’s usually a few days of back and forth emailing to achieve clarity. We’re building a profile per manufacturer and sending the order to fit their requirements. This may sound trivial but it removes a multi-day round trip on most orders, which on a quick-turn build is a meaningful share of the time.

How to solve design review: Each manufacturer has individual capability sheets, and so we have a heuristic harness that Fable 5 uses to check the board for DFM issues. We’re building a streamlined process for end-to-end pcb manufacturing, but is that enough to solve the supply chain? Not a chance. Capacity is the problem, and no amount of smart software will solve it. We’re extracting real slack from the system today, that slack is finite, and at some volume the only remaining move is adding physical capacity. We think that’s where this goes.

We charge a simple margin on the order value depending on order complexity with fully transparent quote breakdowns. We took our first paying order in less than a week and we’ve done roughly $70k across 11 orders in 6 weeks.

We are very interested in your opinion. We’re working in a problem space that has problems everywhere, we’re constantly pulled in wild directions regarding which problems we solve and how we go about solving them. What do you know that we can learn from?

137 points | 99 commentspage 2
tonyarkles 4 hours ago|
I love to see new players in this space! We’ve done a ton of PCBA through Macrofab. My relationship with them goes back far enough to have been a beta customer and I’ve chatted on the phone with the CEO a few times. It’s interesting comparing what you’re offering and what they offer. When I started using them, the fact that you could just upload Eagle or KiCAD files, get an instant quote, and verify MPN/BOM and parts placement online… without having to zip up and email Gerbers was extraordinary. Their lead-time is longer than yours, around 3 weeks, but the pricing has always kinda hit a sweet spot.

I noticed your KiCAD plugin there too. I am super curious to see what your workflow and pricing looks like. There are definitely times when the 7-day turnaround will be a game changer for us.

I guess one gate there: do you ship to Canada? We do have a US branch that could do the export-import for us, but way easier if we don’t have to route it through them as far as end-to-end delivery time goes.

willcarkner 4 hours ago|
Thanks for the feedback. We can ship to Canada, haven't done it yet, but open to it!
pclark 4 hours ago||
I think this is a huge opportunity — speed, domestic production _and_ overall usability of the process - i do think appearing serious business matters a lot in this space, i found your site a little lacking in terms of prose, details, etc. Really great idea though.
willcarkner 4 hours ago|
Site is not cutting it anymore, going to dedicate some better effort to bring it up to standard.
realo 4 hours ago||
Nice but the USA are not our global friends anymore.

Anything available in the EU?

paddi91 3 hours ago||
Disclaimer: CTO & Co-Founder of AISLER here

We're trying to make electronic manufacturing (PCB & PCBA) simple, affordable and speedy. A high grade of automation allows prices starting at 12.20 Euros including VAT and shipping. Our software platform is completely built in-house, including state-of-the-art ODB++ integration. Let me know if you've any questions, happy to answer.

pelorat 4 hours ago|||
I've only found B2B oriented companies in the EU.

Edit: https://aisler.net/en/partners/librepcb

https://www.eurocircuits.com

https://beta-layout.com

LibrePCB from Aisler seems to be most like jlcpcb.

You do pay a lot more though due to industrial regulations. Only lead free solder is allowed in the EU, and chemical regulations and waste disposal laws will drive up the price a lot compared to similar services in China and the USA.

nitros 4 hours ago|||
FYI: Aisler is the PCB manufacturer and assembler (based in Aachen iirc). LibrePCB is CAD software.
vablings 4 hours ago|||
China mostly produces ROHS compliant PCBA anyways. This is a non-issue
nitros 4 hours ago|||
I've used https://aisler.net/en (based in Aachen) plenty of times. I like their quality and I was able to pull off some stupidly toleranced layouts. (This is as a hobbyist building some one-off circuit boards). I haven't used their assembly service.
willcarkner 4 hours ago||
Not as familiar with the EU market, but have heard good things about Eurocircuits
evilelectron 3 hours ago||
Congratulations!

Your timing could not have been better. Yesterday I was talking to a friend about starting a company to tap into the domestic solar inverter market that is about to have a healthy growth due to FCC banning foreign made inverters with radios.

We are planning to build it around STM32 or ESP32 with US parts sourcing and manufacturing.

We are in the project scoping phase. Hopefully we can get something going soon.

willcarkner 3 hours ago|
Interesting stuff, definitely a lot of new demand due to the FCC rules. Curious to see how they hold up though.
scott_h 3 hours ago||
Each of these pretty established suppliers offer this service:

- Sunstone

- Advanced Assembly

- Sierra Circuits

- Osh Park

They all have ~7 day lead time or shorter. It all comes down to choosing simple processes with generic parts.

Do you have your own machines or just outsource these orders and ensure the supply chain stuff moves along quickly?

I like the idea, more heads in the game makes it cheaper for everyone, but this seems like another hat in the ring.

willcarkner 3 hours ago||
They all have this service, but they don't often stick to these lead times in my experience. We help hold them accountable and in the long term we are opening a facility to bring the cost down further.
dmicah 2 hours ago||
I don't believe OSH Park does PCB assembly, only the manufacture of the PCBs themselves.
victor106 1 hour ago||
Any resources to learn how to design a circuit board?
willcarkner 1 hour ago|
Youtube tutorials are pretty great to get started
yesod 2 hours ago||
The "Capabilities" section was not what I was expecting. Layers, via sizing, HDI - where's the details?
willcarkner 2 hours ago|
Updating that as we speak.
wasabi359 3 hours ago||
Curious how the pricing compares to overseas fabs once you factor in the 7-day turn — is that gap closing enough for non-defense teams to switch too, or is this mainly aimed at people who need the domestic supply chain regardless of cost?
willcarkner 3 hours ago|
Non-defense teams find value in getting fab done overseas and then turning to us for assembly and procurement. Bare boards are super expensive here.
Natalia724 4 hours ago||
The upstream BOM feedback seems especially useful: surfacing availability and lead-time alternatives before layout is final should prevent many avoidable redesign loops. Showing those trade-offs directly in the plugin would make the value easy to evaluate.
throwaway672312 4 hours ago|
I work in a building with a board assembly line that sits idle most of the time. They have tried securing outside contract work to fill in the gaps. No takers yet.

The only domestic drivers for board fab and assembly are autmotive and defense. They already have their supply chains running.

willcarkner 4 hours ago|
Makes sense. Is it that most of the time is spent switching jobs or that there's just not enough jobs going through it?

You're right that automotive and defense make up most of the demand. We also see demand from teams who can't use JLC/PCBway due to the difficulty of cosigning parts outside their catalogue.

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